Code 55 Peco derailment

[rsn48]

I have a mystery derailment using Peco 55 turnouts on one particular spot, I think around the points.  It happens on engines and cars that go through other turnouts just fine.  I'm a fanatic for coupler pin height so that is ruled out.  I've taking a NMRA gauge and everything seems to measure out correctly.  I've filed the ends of the points and bent them ever so slightly to make better contact with the rail.

Right now I'm stumped and I've watched all kinds of cars derail, probably about 30 times roughly.  Any suggestions?

[ljudice]

The only time I've had this happen is when the points don't completely close - and I did what you did - file them down. But for me it was always
ONE car or loco that had the problem.

Does it happen in one or both directions?  Exactly what type of turnout is it?

- Lou


EDIT - also one thing I do is to connect an MT or Atlas truck and couple it to a freight car and roll it through and see the dynamics as it goes through
the turnout.  Sometimes it is a lot easier to see than looking at trucks on a car.

[Wardie]

Check for debris in a flange way. I had one get me once where a small part had fallen off a freight car that was the same color as a molded guardrail.

[ednadolski]

I've taking a NMRA gauge and everything seems to measure out correctly.

Can you run the Flangeways end of the gauge all the way thru the turnout, in both directions and both legs, without any binding or picking?

Ed

[nkalanaga]

I had a problem with Peco turnouts when laying my staging yard years ago.  Trains derailed at the points, but only on the curved side, and only on some turnouts.  I swapped the turnouts around, and the problem moved with them, so it had to be the track.  I'd already fixed the wide flangeways, as my lo-pro wheels, of several brands, went through the frogs fine. 

The problem turned out to be the ends of the points.  Some were square (vertical), and some had the upper corner angled.  Pizza cutters went through either one just fine.  The lo-pros ran up the angled ends and kept going straight rather than turning.  I replaced those with spares that had square ends and the problem was solved. 

I have no idea what kind or pints they use now, or when they started/ended using angled points, as mine were all bought in one batch from the back room of a hobby shop.  From the dust, they had been there for some time...  The boxes and part numbers were identical.

[CoalPorter]

You don't state what track is before the turnout.
 Maybe something is going on with the track work ahead
and the cars are starting to derail even before getting to the switch? 
I used to have this problem in one spot with a switch placed
right after a curve. I could see some cars wheels lifting off of
the track before the switch. The track was level and felt good,
but something to do with bad geometery was causing it.

[hpwrick]

A piece of debri seems like the logical trouble maker.    I chased a problem with a Kato switch and finally found a remnant of a rail joiner stuck in between the non-moveable points just before the frog.     

[peteski]

Can you gently push a standalone truck through the turnout?  Don't put any pressure on it, just push it (or even blow on it to make it move).  That might reveal where the derailment occurs.   Or you could take a boxcar and again push it slowly through the turnout to figure out where it derails.

[nkalanaga]

CoalPorter:  Oh yes!  I've seen plenty of THOSE derailments.  After having the flanges turned on my first-run Kato F's I spent months finding all of the dips, humps, and tilts in my track.  Other locos ran fine, but those simply would not stay on the track with small flanges. 

After all of the bad spots were shimmed, or in a few cases, mostly ME turnouts, replaced, trains run very nicely!  My usual Atlas GP7/9 set has no problems at all staying on the track.

[rschaffter]

Rick,

Lay a straightedge along the top of the rail and look for a hump or depression...

[rsn48]

It is occurring on the curve of the turnout, I also have filed, dental picked out and openings, bright boyed the tops, ran my finger nail through to see if any thing caught it.  I have styrene in the gaps held in with super glue, filed down to meet rail profile (after running my finger nails on top and the side of the gaps).  The trains all go through the straight without a hint of a problem.

I found some "fluff" in the guard rail and thought I had solved the problem, I had not.  I will check for how level the area is.

[BN1970]

Rick,
  Is that a curved turnout?  Large radius? Is the track coming into it straight / curved / coming onto or off of a grade?  Is this turnout in an S curve?  Poor track geometry could be the problem?

  I've been using Peco track for about 40 years and when I first install them I run a cut of cars (about 10) in reverse through the switch, at a slow speed.  I watch at eye level the wheels as they go through the points and frog areas.  I do this a number of times.  I look for the wheels stay flat while going through the turnout.  Are they bumping on something?  Are the wheels going up above the rails?  Peco code 80 usually had more issues while the code 55 track is generally pretty good.  But at times they may need re-gauging, the frog filed, the points filed etc.

  As others have already stated sometimes the points don't always click all the way over.  They look like they have but they have not.  When you touch the points does your turnout make another clicking sound?  I found that sometimes you need to look at what ever roadbed material is around the turnouts points, it may be inhibiting them when you throw the points.

  I also had a couple of Peco turnouts where track expansion & contraction had pulled the turnouts rail such that the notch in the rail at the turnouts points had moved about one or 2 millimetres.  I had soldered the turnout to the next section of flex track.  The result was derailments at times as the MT wheels could drop down at the points.  Using some pilers I was able to pull the rail back and that fixed the problem. --Brian

[Van Horne]

Rick, I can think of several possible reasons for this to happen, but one that is very often difficult to diagnose is where the turnout isn't in the same plane throughout its length - usually a slight lateral twist.  It takes VERY little.  Ask me how I know . . .

Dave

[nkalanaga]

That's basically the problem with the early ME C55 turnouts.  The frog was "humped", which lifted the other truck of the Fs enough for the flanges to go over the points on the curved route.  Different cause, but the same effect:  the turnout effectively was twisted.  Filing, and in some cases hammering, the frogs fixed most of them.

[robert3985]

Let's see.  How many hours have you used up trying to figure out the problems with this ONE turnout?  If the problem persists, tear it up and put in a new one.

How many comments and suggestions will your problem generate?  How many man-hours wasted on your one Peco 55 turnout?????

This is one reason I hand-lay all of my turnouts.  I can build one an hour.  I bet I could have built about three in the time you've spent lookin' for a solution, and if any of them had problems, I could fix 'em in place.

Okay...this comment deserves a: 

Seriously, I hope you find a solution SOON!

Cheers!
Bob Gilmore