Need more pre-chessie schemes

[Rossford Yard]

Interesting premise, but as mentioned, many pre Chessie BO/CO/WM schemes were done in the old days (a la 1990's).

I love all three roads, but wonder how well they sold?  You have the relatively dull scheme (grey covered hoppers with small B and O logo, for instance) vs a beauty in the Chessie.  Also, the pre Chessie BO/CO/WM era was dirty and dull, and only lasted 1963-1972, or 9 years.  Granted many cars and locos went well into the 90's in those schemes. 

Some Chessie schemes have lasted well into the 2000's, albeit as Winchester Western or lease cars. Almost 40 years on that one.

Not against getting them, hope everyone gets what they want, and I have a few, but just wondering if they would sell well enough in a down market?  It seems the mfgs sort of go with the newer eras.  Even starting to see less BN, and more BNSF, although ATSF still seems to get made with regularity.

[Brakie]

Interesting premise, but as mentioned, many pre Chessie BO/CO/WM schemes were done in the old days (a la 1990's).

Modeling the C&O/Chessie(C&O) correctly has never been easy regardless of scale and one can count on painting or renumbering locomotives and renumbering some freight cars..

On the bright side Atlas has announced a release of C&O Geep 9s in the Blue/yellow with just C&O on the hood schedule to be released in the second quarter.

[bbussey]

It's never been easy modeling any number of roads.  That's why it's called modeling, rather than accumulating.  That said, the pre-Chessie roads of any era have been among the more prolific over the years when it comes to available N scale RTR models.  It's much easier to model late-C&O just prior to the Chessie era than is it a lot of other roads from that time period.

[Brakie]

It's much easier to model late-C&O just prior to the Chessie era than is it a lot of other roads from that time period.
-------------------------------------
You'll still find the need to paint and renumber locomotives-there isn't that many C&O locomotives  available and its not as easy as you think..

I been down that road in HO from '96-2003 and did my fair share of painting and decaling,changing numbers and having some locomotives custom painted..

You do realized even modeling the "late C&O" requires several older paint schemes that lasted to the end of the Chessie era?

[bbussey]

Proper paint colors exist.  Proper decals exist.  RTR models have been released regularly over the past 40 years, including a totally prototypical caboose in recent years that has been painted in all of the appropriate schemes.  Not an issue.

[Brakie]

Proper paint colors exist.  Proper decals exist.  RTR models have been released regularly over the past 40 years, including a totally prototypical caboose in recent years that has been painted in all of the appropriate schemes.  Not an issue.

I see you know very little of modeling the C&O.I won't fault you for that since you are in the majority.Most don't even know the C&O handled more freight then coal or went to Canada.

The last 10 years has seen more C&O locomotives and the  Magor caboose then any time in the past 40 years but,not in every C&O locomotive scheme.

And sadly not all C&O Enchantment Blue paint is created equal.

Try matching Atlas C&O Enchantment Blue in order to paint the fuel tank and truck side frames..Good luck!

Some brands of C&O decals the fonts is incorrect-passable for normal modelers like me but, unacceptable to discrete C&O modelers.

So,as I said one will be doing a lot of painting and renumbering in modeling the C&O-unless one wants a small and very limited 1 or 2 locomotive representation roster straight from the box and then that would be a very limited representation of a complex railroad.

We won't even discuss the lack of correct C&O steam engines.

[SkipGear]

We won't even discuss the lack of correct C&O steam engines.

BRAWHHH HAAA HAAA HA HAAA That is the funniest thing I have heard yet......you just proved how little you really know right there. 

Where do I start....C&O probably has the most accurate steam roster available of any road out there.

C&O H4 x4 numbers
C&O H5 x2 numbers
C&O H8 (in brass) X4 numbers
C&O Berkshire x4 numbers
C&O Heavy Mountain x1 numbers
C&O Consolidation x 2 numbers (not perfect but closer than most)
C&O USRA 0-8-0 x2 numbers

Take a Kato Mike and a VC16 tender and make a very convincing C&O Mikado.
About the only thing missing is their Heavy Pacific for passenger service.

I model B&O primarily but have 10 times the accurate C&O steam than I do B&O. It's so damn easy just to go buy it instead of build it, which I have to do for every piece of B&O steam power that I own.

[Brakie]

BRAWHHH HAAA HAAA HA HAAA!

You know very little to I see.

Where are the other types?

The G9s,The 0-6-0s,the 4-6-4s,the 4-6-2,2-8-2s there are many other missing including the 0-10-0s.

The Kato 2-8-2 doesn't come close as a stand in  K class mike.

The Bachmann 2-8-0 doesn't even come close to making a G9 stand in..

[bbussey]

Larry,

I find it interesting that every time someone calls you out on a statement you've made and backs it up with irrefutable evidence, you double-down by insisting that person doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  Every single time.  Do you have any idea how that makes you look in the eyes of everyone else?  No models exist - oh, the Magor caboose does but that doesn't count.  No paint exists - oh it does, but it doesn't match the paint used on some RTR models.  No steam engines exist - oh some classes do exist but not all of them.  You're entitled to your opinions, but you're not entitled to your own set of facts.  Your whole premise in this thread is that few models and modeling supplies exist to portray C&O accurately.  Posts have been made that refute your statements, and have been backed up with unimpeachable facts.  The bottom line is that it isn't difficult at all to model C&O in N, relative to most of the other Class I roads.  So get your head out of the bubble, accept that you were wrong and move on before you lose all credibility.

[Brakie]

Bryan,The only thing I am saying and I say it one more time.

When modeling the C&O one will need to renumber or paint locomotives and freight cars.That is a well known fact to the average C&O modeler that needs  lots of C&O locomotives.

A handful of painted C&O locomotives does not a roster make.

If one is modeling a C&O branch he can get by with the Atlas C&O GP7/9/30/35 and SD35.

Now if one is modeling the Big Sandy Sub then he will need several locomotives types to include U25Bs,U3O B/Cs,B30-7s,SD35,SD40s etc since all those engines seen service on the BS.

Over the years I always  thought and read that modeling a prototype should be done as accurate as possible.

Silly me..

[davefoxx]

Bryan,The only thing I am saying and I say it one more time.

When modeling the C&O one will need to renumber or paint locomotives and freight cars.That is a well known fact to the average C&O modeler that needs  lots of C&O locomotives.

A handful of painted C&O locomotives does not a roster make.

If one is modeling a C&O branch he can get by with the Atlas C&O GP7/9/30/35 and SD35.

Now if one is modeling the Big Sandy Sub then he will need several locomotives types to include U25Bs,U3O B/Cs,B30-7s,SD35,SD40s etc since all those engines seen service on the BS.

Over the years I always  thought and read that modeling a prototype should be done as accurate as possible.

Silly me..

Larry,

I don't understand your point.  With perhaps a few exceptions, show me any road, especially fallen flags, that a modeler is not going to have to "'renumber or paint locomotives and freight cars' to build a large roster."  That said, I did model a portion of the pre-Chessie C&O Piedmont Sub on a former layout.  Thanks to Atlas, I was able to build a moderate size roster of locomotives that were actually used on the Piedmont Sub without having to renumber or paint, e.g., U23Bs, GP38s, GP9s, and to a lesser extent, SD35s and U25Bs.  I specifically recall how I couldn't believe my luck when they announced the U23B and offered three road numbers.  No, I haven't super-detailed my fleet, so a rivet counter could easily argue that my locomotives are not perfectly accurate.  But, I don't lose sleep over that stuff.  This is only a hobby, after all.  But, I think this definitely gave me an accurate roster with the variety seen on the real C&O in central Virginia.  Could I have renumbered more locomotives to build a larger fleet?  Sure, but money doesn't grow on trees.  And, my roster was definitely large enough for me, as I would think it would be for the average modeler.

I also think that Atlas has done a good job of giving me locomotives to build a good-sized roster of Seaboard System locomotives (including predecessors that would have still been seen on SBD rails) without renumbering and repainting, including, B23-7s, B30-7s, U23Bs, and GP38s.  I will admit that I would like to patch a few of my predecessors for the SBD, if I find the proper decals.  I haven't really searched that much, though, because I have to still build the layout, and SBD did not repaint the entire fleet on January 1, 1983.  But, do I have a large roster?  Probably not, but again, this is not unusual.  To build a large roster in just about any road, one is going to have to renumber or repaint.

Oh, and speaking of the Seaboard System, I stand behind my statement that the Seaboard System was renamed CSX Transportation on July 1, 1986.  To the best of my knowledge, CSXT did not exist before July 1, 1986.  CSX Corporation, its parent company, has existed since 1980, but it was the subsidiary CSXT that merged the actual railroads.  The Chessie roads were merged in later than July 1, 1986.  In my previous post, I specifically avoided mentioning that certain Chessie roads controlled another to keep the explanation simple.  I was merely referring to the existence of each company, not who controlled them.  My previous post describes when these entities ceased to exist, i.e., their mergers.

DFF

[Dave V]

Agreed, DFF...  That was my thought too.  Any major road would require some renumbering to expand one's fleet beyond a few representative locos/cars per class.  Atlas typically releases what, 2-3 road numbers per scheme every few years?  No way the situation is unique to C&O.

[Brakie]

Agreed, DFF...  That was my thought too.  Any major road would require some renumbering to expand one's fleet beyond a few representative locos/cars per class.  Atlas typically releases what, 2-3 road numbers per scheme every few years?  No way the situation is unique to C&O.

Guys,That is exactly what I'm saying.

When modeling the C&O one will need to renumber or paint locomotives and freight cars.

How much more plainer can I be?

No where did I say this was unique to C&O modeling.

I did say there was a lack of C&O steam engines which is true and to a degree certain C&O diesels like the SD18,GP39 and others..


I think we may be on the same track..

[Dave V]

I did say there was a lack of C&O steam engines which is true and to a degree certain C&O diesels like the SD18,GP39 and others..

You will never get sympathy from a Pennsy modeler on this point! 

[bbussey]

Bryan,The only thing I am saying and I say it one more time.

When modeling the C&O one will need to renumber or paint locomotives and freight cars.That is a well known fact to the average C&O modeler that needs  lots of C&O locomotives.

A handful of painted C&O locomotives does not a roster make.

If one is modeling a C&O branch he can get by with the Atlas C&O GP7/9/30/35 and SD35.

Now if one is modeling the Big Sandy Sub then he will need several locomotives types to include U25Bs,U3O B/Cs,B30-7s,SD35,SD40s etc since all those engines seen service on the BS.

Over the years I always  thought and read that modeling a prototype should be done as accurate as possible.

Silly me..

That's not what you said, and all you're doing at this point is trying to obfuscate your original intent in order to save face.  You stated outright that it is difficult to secure models decorated in C&O.  To morph that into it being necessary to renumber equipment for any road to built a huge fleet as your original point is a stretch even for you.  Most people, as Dave Foxx stated, do not amass prototypically-sized motive power fleets.  Most if not all of the units you mention this last time HAVE been released in C&O livery by Atlas in multiple numbers - in at least two road numbers and many times three road numbers.  For the "average" modeler who has a layout built in a spare bedroom, the C&O motive power that has been offered to date is MORE than adequate to fill any roster needs.

Also, stop trying to twist the conversation to portray yourself as the victim of unfair criticism.  It's unbecoming, and insulting.  Multiple people in this thread have refuted your statements with FACTS.  Take your medicine and move on.