Author Topic: Seaboard Central 2.0  (Read 292322 times)

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narrowminded

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2955 on: May 15, 2017, 05:08:04 PM »
+5
A little late posting this but the layout was picked up Wednesday, arrived in its new home Thursday morning, and had trains running Friday afternoon. 8)  Very nice, very satisfied. :)  All materials, instructions sheets for components, buildings and a few spares, all as nice and as organized as could be hoped for.  It was nice to meet Dave and family even though it was a pretty busy moving visit with little socializing.  And Dave's daughter is as cute as could be but even better, pretty sharp in conversation and manner.  I suspect she's got a big future.  Be proud Mom and Dad! :)

The move went well in spite of a hard rain for the last fifty miles of the trip.  It was moved in the bed of my pickup with a tonneau cover BUT... in the earliest planning stages it was realized that the layout was on an 80" door with another 3/16" each end for the facia and the bed measured 79 7/8" with the gate closed. :|  I had to run with the gate down and wind especially but also rain was a serious concern.  I pondered what to do and, trusting Dave's dimensions, wound up making a knock down foam box with individual sides to totally enclose the thing.  It fit snugly on all sides, well captured, nice cushioning, no shifting, and no wind or water penetration.  Arrived without so much as a scratch or dislocated ballast stone.  Making the box was a little bit of chore but it was worth every bit of the effort.  About $50 worth of foam sheets and all to be recycled into future layout material so very little waste. 8) 

The only thing I had to do beyond basic, simple reassembly was to lower it.  If it was just me I would have gone about four inches down.  About two of that from just being shorter than Dave with about two more for preference.  But my lady friend is another four inches shorter yet at about 5'1" so, after consulting with her, stepping her up on some stacks of books to arrive at a level she felt comfortable with, we wound up lowering it 8".  And I'm liking it as I've run it a bit and find I can sit very comfortably on a stool at about a perfect viewing level.  It's perfect. 8)

Again, quite happy and an overall great experience.  Thanks so much Dave. :)

« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 05:11:49 PM by narrowminded »
Mark G.

davefoxx

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2956 on: May 15, 2017, 10:15:29 PM »
+1
Thanks, @narrowminded!  I think we'll keep her.  ;)

Glad to hear you've got the layout up and running.  If I had remembered to go over it (and I knew you were going to adjust the table height), I would have suggested a pipe cutter to cut the electrical conduit legs off.  Worked like a champ when I build the table.

Oh, and the foam packing box was a thing of art.  Beautiful work.  I had no doubt the layout would make it the six or seven hours back home.

DFF

General Counsel to the Laurel Valley Ry.
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narrowminded

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2957 on: May 16, 2017, 12:39:59 AM »
+2

 If I had remembered to go over it (and I knew you were going to adjust the table height), I would have suggested a pipe cutter to cut the electrical conduit legs off.  Worked like a champ when I build the table.

DFF

I have an abrasive cut off saw that made pretty short work of the tubing cuts.  The hardest part was realizing why the extension wouldn't come off after removing the screws.  I'll bet you forgot that there were broken off screws in two of the upper metal leg attachments. :facepalm:  It took me a minute to notice them as they blended in pretty nicely.  Once I realized what the problem was it was easy to drill them out. 

Also there was a DT402 manual for the controller covering the various models and including the DT402D.  You mentioned that you thought it might not be there due to yours being an updated older unit. They must have included the book with the upgrade.  Regardless of how it happened to be there, it was a welcome sight and has already come in handy.

The whole thing from purchase, to move, to reassembly in my place really did come off quite nicely. 8)

Oh, and one question.  I see in the box of goodies a decoder package #DN163AO.  Did you mean for it to be in there? 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 02:31:08 AM by narrowminded »
Mark G.

davefoxx

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2958 on: May 16, 2017, 05:58:19 AM »
+1
I have an abrasive cut off saw that made pretty short work of the tubing cuts.  The hardest part was realizing why the extension wouldn't come off after removing the screws.  I'll bet you forgot that there were broken off screws in two of the upper metal leg attachments. :facepalm:  It took me a minute to notice them as they blended in pretty nicely.  Once I realized what the problem was it was easy to drill them out. 

Oh, I remember those screws well. Apparently, el cheapos.  I was not happy when those screw heads started popping off.  I didn't think to mention it, because I didn't know you were going to adjust the height of the table.

Also there was a DT402 manual for the controller covering the various models and including the DT402D.  You mentioned that you thought it might not be there due to yours being an updated older unit. They must have included the book with the upgrade.  Regardless of how it happened to be there, it was a welcome sight and has already come in handy.

The whole thing from purchase, to move, to reassembly in my place really did come off quite nicely. 8)

I don't remember getting a new manual, but it's possible.  It's been close to five years since I upgraded.  And, yes, I agree that the whole deal could not have gone down better.

Oh, and one question.  I see in the box of goodies a decoder package #DN163AO.  Did you mean for it to be in there?

I had no idea that was in there, but it's yours.  It'll be good for Atlas locomotives with the short decoder board.  Maybe that will help even the deal, since I kept the SAL station.  ;)

DFF

General Counsel to the Laurel Valley Ry.
Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
Member: Wilmington & Western RR
A Proud HOer

narrowminded

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2959 on: June 03, 2017, 06:13:18 AM »
+2
I've been running trains in between other tasks.  It's accomplishing my need and I'm quite happy with the purchase.  Thanks again, Dave. 8)

I had to fix a few turnouts as Dave mentioned, and also fix the track gauging at the main street crossing.  It had narrowed a little, I'm guessing from pressure of a very well fitted road.  Also did a lot of turnout tuning.  Several of the #5's in the yard were pretty badly out of gauge, even the frog castings (which surprised me) but about every one stood some refinement to be in spec.  The result is totally satisfactory performance of all locos and rolling stock that are in spec even when at the extremes of the tolerance.  That makes running so reliable and allows it to be fun.  No muss, no fuss, even with bigger steam like the EM-1, 2-8-8-4, a 2-6-6-0, a USRA 2-10-2, and a 4-6-0.  All of them run flawlessly even on the tightest radiused sections. 

Two of the turnouts (as Dave had advised) had lost the conductivity between one of the fixed and diverging rails and needed the little wire jumper soldered in place fix.  That was accomplished using the resistance solder rig which has proven to be an amazingly useful tool.  But one, the one just to the left of the main street crossing, while tuning, had the diverging rail pull out of its hinge point.  Initial reaction was a sinking feeling but then I remembered this post  https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=27477.msg454931#msg454931  and it set me in the right direction for a painless and perfect repair, in place.  And I didn't even use PCB ties or have to solder in place.  Made a one piece rail with a soldered on tab duplicating the original method used to attach to the throw bar, filed a notch in to the web, top and bottom at the rail pivot points, and slid it in where the old fixed nubs were.  A drop of CA on the fixed rail to make sure it couldn't shift forward or back and it's back in operation.  All done in place, operates flawlessly, and looks untouched after a little Neo-Lube to darken it up.  It was actually a very easy repair especially with that resistance solder rig to accurately position and attach the operating tab at the end. 

I still have a couple of issues with the extreme right siding rail and switch frogs that isn't making sense at a glance but will get it figured some day when I get some time to digest it.  There is a constant resistance present at the frogs on two of those switches and it doesn't make sense at a glance.  That fault causes stalls on a couple of the diesel locos with the right (or is that "wrong") ;) wheelbase.  There are juicers on them (I think) and I wonder if that might have something to do with it.  All of the other frogs I checked are open and get full track voltage with the proper polarity through the juicers.  I'll get at it some day and may be back for some advice. 

Meanwhile, ALL else is quite perfect and I'm happy being able to fire up a train while I'm working or putz around with some switching for a little diversion once in a while. 8)

« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 06:17:55 AM by narrowminded »
Mark G.

John

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2960 on: June 03, 2017, 07:25:01 AM »
0
Quote
Several of the #5's in the yard were pretty badly out of gauge, even the frog castings (which surprised me) but about every one stood some refinement to be in spec. 

I'm seeing something similar with my #5s . guage issues are starting to creep in after a long time on the layout .. some of my turnouts are the original manufactured models .. the NMRA guage is starting to catch in various spots ..   a file is needed . .the frog is some weird alloy that doesn't solder well .  I'm wondering if there isn't some metalurgical process going on here

narrowminded

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2961 on: June 03, 2017, 09:35:00 AM »
0
I'm seeing something similar with my #5s . guage issues are starting to creep in after a long time on the layout .. some of my turnouts are the original manufactured models .. the NMRA guage is starting to catch in various spots ..   a file is needed . .the frog is some weird alloy that doesn't solder well .  I'm wondering if there isn't some metalurgical process going on here

I was wondering if they may have been the first run from the new manufacturer, not having their dies right. 

A few of them needed point rails tweeked but that wasn't such a big deal.  What I had that was surprising was guard rails that weren't wide enough, cast that way as well as some positioned in the ties that were tight.  All of the between rail dimensions were good, a couple maybe a little wide (by a few thousandths) but that also meant that while the flangeway clearances on each individual side may have been within spec the span was not.  And three of the cast frog's flangeway clearances were visibly narrower than others with the naked eye, as little as .020" when they should have been .027"/ .030".  Those few would bump most things or at least rock the cars.  That dimensional error and as common and far off as it was, was very surprising to me. 

What I had with guard rails on several was an inside spacing dimension of .298" to as much as .303" (the three that were visibly narrow in the flangeway) where the wheel back to back spacing is allowed to be as low as .297" and was actually the dimension of a number of the MTL plastic wheels I checked as well as the common dimension for a few Bachmann switchers I have.  In fact, after checking an assortment of locos and rolling stock it seemed that the most common dimension was under .300" and often at the lower end of the tolerance, .298"/ .297".  Well, they would make it through at those dimensions but with a bumping action in all of the tight ones and for a few of the locos it would actually bind on the wheel flange and cause a visible slowing or worst case, stall.  And you can't re-gauge plastic wheelsets.  I did have a couple of axles that were out of spec on the 2-6-0, too wide, and one on the USRA 2-10-2, set too narrow.  All of the diesels were within spec.

To open up those flangeways I ground the face off one side of a flat jewelers file both to physically fit it in the tight ones and also to make sure it cut on only one side.  It worked well and is now my turnout file.  I would hope not to need it very often. ;)  The effort was worth it though, as the performance across the board is quite good, quite smooth. 8)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 09:37:53 AM by narrowminded »
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narrowminded

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2962 on: June 03, 2017, 09:55:03 AM »
0
I'm seeing something similar with my #5s . guage issues are starting to creep in after a long time on the layout .. some of my turnouts are the original manufactured models .. the NMRA guage is starting to catch in various spots ..   a file is needed . .the frog is some weird alloy that doesn't solder well .  I'm wondering if there isn't some metalurgical process going on here

And let me just add...  I think those point rails are cast Z-mac with either a copper then nickel plating or maybe a copper alloying to the base metal but you are right.  They don't solder well and I don't think I would have succeeded soldering them with a conventional iron.  But also let me say that after doing that rail replacement, it was so easy that I think in the future if that need to try to solder the wire to the rail should arise again I will just replace the whole rail as I did on the one I had that pulled out at the pivot.  It takes care of the plating issue too and is probably easier and more reliable over the long haul than soldering the little wire to the rail. 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 09:58:36 AM by narrowminded »
Mark G.

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2963 on: June 03, 2017, 12:07:14 PM »
0
I'm seeing something similar with my #5s . guage issues are starting to creep in after a long time on the layout ..

Isn't this the issue that sent Jerry Britton into HO?

John

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2964 on: June 03, 2017, 12:31:32 PM »
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Isn't this the issue that sent Jerry Britton into HO?

probably .. but I don't mind tweeking

narrowminded

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2965 on: June 04, 2017, 04:11:40 PM »
+2
Hope these aren't too boring for folks. :) 

I went ahead and made a little video of the turnouts and track rolling performance on Dave's old Seaboard 2.0 using my biggest steam, the EM-1.    It was during testing of all of my locos that some of the performance issues surfaced and closer scrutiny indicated the issues outlined a few posts ago.   I'm now quite satisfied with the performance in general and still have a couple of electrical issues to work out on two of the turnouts on the extreme right side yard track.

/>
This layout is a nice piece of work and has given me a HUGE head start with something to run as I play and decide where to go from here.  This purchase has proven to be a very good choice for me and my situation.  But I guess at some point it will be time to renumber to 2.1. 8) 

As you can tell I'm definitely a steam fan as well as early diesel (especially Alco) and coal fields so expect I'll have some scenery adjustments to do.  I'm fine with following a feel, not a specific location.  I'll welcome thoughts from folks on that as I progress. 
Mark G.

Chris333

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2966 on: June 04, 2017, 08:45:36 PM »
0
lol that EM1 on those curves  :D 

narrowminded

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2967 on: June 04, 2017, 09:57:19 PM »
0
lol that EM1 on those curves  :D

Isn't THAT the truth. :D  I'm amazed that it runs them reliably regardless of track work.  Those cars are all truck mounted couplers, too.  Throw the johnson bar and let 'er rip!  :D 
Mark G.

Chris333

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2968 on: June 04, 2017, 10:34:35 PM »
0
So where does the mine go with the tram?

narrowminded

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Re: Seaboard Central 2.0
« Reply #2969 on: June 04, 2017, 11:07:43 PM »
0
So where does the mine go with the tram?

Up that ramp to nowhere seems to be the best candidate this far but I'm not sure when I'll actually be ready to start that kind of surgery, if ever.  I've got a few things on my plate that are ahead of that  project. 

I really think about using those small locos on small modules, much like some you have done.  8)  I really admire the work you do.
Mark G.