KATO and the EAST

[jnevis]

From the FVM site, specifically on the first set of releases:
"Q: Will you do all the absolute 100% correct versions of these locos. Which ones will you do?

Sorry to say, no can do. There are numerous versions on the GEVO Locomotives. There are 10 US roads that own GEVO's with only slightly more paint schemes, while body variations number somewhere above 20. UP has at least 4 versions itself. While it would be neat to do absolute correct versions for every road, and certainly possible , it is simply not cost effective or practical. So what are we modeling? After looking across the board on all variations (which are still evolving on the prototype even today), We decided to model 3 specific locos - 2 AC versions and 1 DC version. We are doing 2 unique cabs. A 3 Window version commonly used on the UP and a 4 window version commonly used on the BNSF. The AC and DC locos use different sills and handrails - so we did those. There are AC bodies with High (UP) and Low (BNSF) rear headlights. The DC body uses the low rear headlight (BNSF). We also opted to add either Hi-Ad or Steerable trucks in the mix. With all these components, we can mix and match parts to get a number of specific prototypes and fairly close on the rest. With these parts, we will be offering 6 different locomotives."

I'd put money on Kato and Atlas following the same logic for their items too. 

[Puddington]

Ya see, the problem here is is that FVM explaination is clear, concise and logical; three things that almost never work in n scale arguments...............

[sundowner]

From the FVM site, specifically on the first set of releases:
"Q: Will you do all the absolute 100% correct versions of these locos. Which ones will you do?

Sorry to say, no can do. There are numerous versions on the GEVO Locomotives. There are 10 US roads that own GEVO's with only slightly more paint schemes, while body variations number somewhere above 20. UP has at least 4 versions itself. While it would be neat to do absolute correct versions for every road, and certainly possible , it is simply not cost effective or practical. So what are we modeling? After looking across the board on all variations (which are still evolving on the prototype even today), We decided to model 3 specific locos - 2 AC versions and 1 DC version. We are doing 2 unique cabs. A 3 Window version commonly used on the UP and a 4 window version commonly used on the BNSF. The AC and DC locos use different sills and handrails - so we did those. There are AC bodies with High (UP) and Low (BNSF) rear headlights. The DC body uses the low rear headlight (BNSF). We also opted to add either Hi-Ad or Steerable trucks in the mix. With all these components, we can mix and match parts to get a number of specific prototypes and fairly close on the rest. With these parts, we will be offering 6 different locomotives."

I'd put money on Kato and Atlas following the same logic for their items too. 

And then after that was posted they made a CP specific GEVO, after a few CP modelers trash the model for having the wrong cab.

Kato yeah, Atlas no.

But it comes down to this, if N-scale is going to be taken seriously all the manufacturer need to be put on the spot like they are in HO. There is no need to hide or have your friends come in and tried to trash the messenger.

[mcjaco]

Wrong cab is one thing.  Missing DB vent is another.

[SkipGear]

And then after that was posted they made a CP specific GEVO, after a few CP modelers trash the model for having the wrong cab.

Kato yeah, Atlas no.

But it comes down to this, if N-scale is going to be taken seriously all the manufacturer need to be put on the spot like they are in HO. There is no need to hide or have your friends come in and tried to trash the messenger.

That just proves that the CP modelers buy enough product to make it worthwhile to provide them with a correctly tooled version. CP modelers have been buying enough "close enoughs" that they have proven that there market is large enough to give them specific product.

If the CSX / NS guys would quit bitching and buy stuff, they would show the manufactures that there are enough of them out there to extend a little effort thier direction. Until then, complaining is doing nothing but keeping your road specific options farther and farther away from reality.

[mcjaco]

^ OR, they could actually do some modeling, and break out the drill bits, and install the headlights in the proper place. 


*Gasp* 

[victor miranda]

That just proves that the CP modelers buy enough product to make it worthwhile to provide them with a correctly tooled version. CP modelers have been buying enough "close enoughs" that they have proven that there market is large enough to give them specific product.

If the CSX / NS guys would quit bitching and buy stuff, they would show the manufactures that there are enough of them out there to extend a little effort thier direction. Until then, complaining is doing nothing but keeping your road specific options farther and farther away from reality.

hi Skipgear,

well, I can see a flaw in the thinking...

and your thinking does seem far more consistant with
what the Kato and FVM have done in n-scale.

My understanding is that nobody gets 'accurate' n-scale models.

victor

[jnevis]

Kato yeah, Atlas no.

That's why the Atlas SD60M only comes with two versions instead of at least three variations I've noticed just on UP. 

[bbussey]

^ OR, they could actually do some modeling, and break out the drill bits, and install the headlights in the proper place. 
 

BINGO!!

[victor miranda]

BINGO!!

just to be clear.
while I've been known to bust out my modeling tools and skills,
the professional model makers are way far better than me.

put another way, If I can hire it done by atlas, FVM, or Kato
it will look a LOT better.

v

[SkipGear]

just to be clear.
while I've been known to bust out my modeling tools and skills,
the professional model makers are way far better than me.

put another way, If I can hire it done by atlas, FVM, or Kato
it will look a LOT better.

v

All the more reason to bust out the tools and practice. You can't expect to get better if you won't try. I know in quite a few aspects, I can do a lot better than the "professional" model builders at Atlas/Kato/FVM/ etc. It is just a mater or time and effort.

It seems now that most people would rather spend money (but not too much) to let somebody else's time and effort come to them, instead of expending a little time and effort themselves and learning something.

[victor miranda]

Hi skipgear,
I promise, it is way far easier to ask that the correct-for-me  model be built
than to even get the tools out.

from all I can tell it is far cheaper also.

so have no fear,  I ( and everyone in their right mind... )
will ask for what they want before starting any such project.

now If you are telling me to change hobbies
(to sctatchbuilding locos?) all I can tell you is that
one of my hobbies is asking for what I want.

victor

[bbussey]

One other rather obvious point regarding a dream Kato K4:  Kato-Japan makes a ton of stand-alone Japanese-prototype steam models and has for years, so the company isn't adverse to the concept.  Kato-USA offered their lone stand-alone model, the USRA Mikado, in 1996.  They also released the GS4 steamer in 2008 for the Daylight consist, all variations of which are still in stock.  Don't you think, if the demand existed, that Kato-USA would have offered more steam engines over the last 15 years, of any kind? 

There sure have been a lot of F7 releases over the years, including nearly every ATSF unit ever painted in the red/silver Warbonnet scheme.  Any Tony may very well be correct about GG1 bodyshell variations being used to reduce excess mechanism stock, but there sure have been a bunch more GG1 offerings than there have been GS4 offerings over the past three years.

[victor miranda]

One other rather obvious point regarding a dream Kato K4:  Kato-Japan makes a ton of stand-alone Japanese-prototype steam models and has for years, so the company isn't adverse to the concept.  Kato-USA offered their lone stand-alone model, the USRA Mikado, in 1996.  They also released the GS4 steamer in 2008 for the Daylight consist, all variations of which are still in stock.  Don't you think, if the demand existed, that Kato-USA would have offered more steam engines over the last 15 years, of any kind? 

There sure have been a lot of F7 releases over the years, including nearly every ATSF unit ever painted in the red/silver Warbonnet scheme.  Any Tony may very well be correct about GG1 bodyshell variations being used to reduce excess mechanism stock, but there sure have been a bunch more GG1 offerings than there have been GS4 offerings over the past three years.

the short answer is no.
I can kick opinions about why Kato has not played to their single biggest strength.
and those are opinions.

The most important one is that Kato does not seem to realize
how good they are at making steam models.
I happen to think that the GS-4 is a good model.
and that puppy is as road specific as you will ever get.
it was made despite having direct and good competition in the CC version.

From all I can tell, the GS4 was made by defying all the 'rules' about making n-scale model steamers.
up to 1996 Kato never re-released any model.
demand be damned.

so I would like to point out that Kato re-relased the Mikado a total of three different times
95/96 depending on how you want to time that one
around 2001 and 2006  ( I hope I remember that right...)
Kato has been supplying Steamers.

what they lack is the bravery to tackle some other iconic locos

I seriously doubt that Kato will do a copy of the
Southern ps4 ( I think that is the class) as found in the Smithsonian
they are far more likely to do a Niagra as they have a chassis the can fit under that shell.

my original comment was that..
 someone said.. that Kato said ... DL out sold BL...
and I was only pointing out that a steamer on the front will get more sales than a diesel on the front (or electric)

from there the only loco to make for the front of the BL is ?
to me that is a side issue.

v

[Mark5]

Don't you think, if the demand existed, that Kato-USA would have offered more steam engines over the last 15 years, of any kind? 

Based on Kato's "handling" of the SD40-2, I'd say no*. The last time the early SD40-2 was offered was in Y2K (2000). You can't tell me that there's been insufficient demand for these ...

On the idea of a Kato K4, based on the current theory that they "need" a train behind it, then Kato would have to tool up an earlier version of the Broadway, as the version done by Kato did not run behind steam as far as I know.

Mark

* for Bryan - yeah I understand that North America is a secondary market for Kato, and that other more profitable offerings in Japan may have trumped more SD40-2s for USA. This makes absolute sense to me - even if it sucks for US modelers.