KATO and the EAST

[up1950s]

Their was a thread on Atlas which Cory just locked . I was just about to post my thoughts but Cory put the thread in the muted box . So with his comment as a guide I sent my post to KATO USA . Maybe you might have something to say ?


 ........... This is what I had planned to post to Atlas , but now posted to KATO USA .

" Odd being that East is the land of the Rising Sun . Could be that their culture of respect and fear of correcting or challenging company officials for fear of reprisals and humiliation is stifling the company line of " West Sells Better " . As mentioned the GG1 was a big hit , I even bought one . The AFT T1 is another loco I would buy , as well as the Freedom Train cars . Anything PRR is a sure thing . Maybe the GG1 sales will wake them up to their faulty minded bias . "

[jnevis]

I personally think David Leonard's post on the other thread is pretty close, plus the Japanese tend to want to model open expanses not available to them over there.  Eastern roads are effectively the same as the local ones there, heavily urban with some open scenery.  Hard to beat AZ, NV, or NM for open land.

[up1950s]

I just got this back from KATO

" All decisions relating to what products get manufactured are made here, in
the United States, by the US staff.

Regards,

Michael Conway
"

[jmlaboda - RIP]

"The AFT T1 is another loco I would buy , as well as the Freedom Train cars ."

This would seem to be something better suited for Concor to do since they like to specialize in doing the unique and unusual... but then it would probably carry a MSRP of $3000+.

The AFT cars themselves could be kitbashed fairly reasonably using available cars and kits.  The T1 is another story... what with all the development in regards to folks on forums doing resin boiler shells it is at least one possibility to consider, though I wouldn't have any idea where to start.  Between their use on the RDG as well as all of the excursions that the survivors were used on I believe it could be an interesting one to have done since there are roads other than RDG that the engine could be used on... just don't know where someone would start from.  Maybe others will yet have an idea about this.

There was a thread over on Trainboard about someone modeling the train... it is definitely be a major kitbashing job but if it could be done right...

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?96833-American-Freedom-Train&highlight=American+Freedom+Train

[victor miranda]

I wrote that original post out of frustration.
some one told me with a straight face that
kato said west sells better... and used the daylight and BL as proof.

ooof.
it may well be kato is right that west sells better... for them.
buuuut there is a big difference in why the two didn't match sales
and it has more to do with steam and colorful than anything else.

on another note,
the guys at Kato may be pleasant to Mr. Rothlisberger.
my experience is that the fellow at the Kato table wanted to talk
to everyone who came to the table except me...

so Corey' parting advice left a lot to be desired for me.

victor

[wm3798]

To me it's a similar argument that we've heard alleged by Walthers...

We don't make X in N scale because no one buys it.

The corollary being:  No one buys X because we don't offer it.

Tis a riddle.

Lee

[Philip H]

And, Since the Atlas shop is a manufacturer sponsored forum, I can see the locking and advice to "take it to Kato"

Not saying I agree with the approach, but then again I don't post at Atlas for that and a whole ton of other reasons.

[sizemore]

Why worry about what Kato won't make? Someone else will do it just a well (or close enough) eventually.

Athearn, Rapido and FVM are case in point.

But I'll pine for a B&O or a NYC premiere train though....


The S.

[victor miranda]

ya kno sizemore,

I don't think I was advocating kato making any model,
except maybe indirectly.

I think I dislike the flawed reasoning.
as long as it is seen as flawed,
I'll let Kato deal with the consequences.

sadly, I like Kato's steamers,
it would be a shame to lose them as a manufacturer.

v

[delamaize]

I honstly can see where Kato is coming from though, I know it is probably a deathwish to say it here, but thewest coast railroads are more popular, and modeled more often. BUT, I believe that the big reason is not so much the size and visibility of the railroads, but the prototypes. Like what has already been said, the NE railroads built a lot of their own equipment, making it unique to that railroad. For instance: B&O wagon top boxcars and cabooses (eventhough we have them, and they sell well), PRR's Belpaire fireboxes, and such. Figure that  Belpaire fireboxes were pretty much a PRR thing, Some other railroads like the GN used them to some extent, but not a lot. Where most of the west coast railroads used pretty much "off the shelf" equipment, or equipment that had such little diffrences, where one could make one model and easily represent several roads.

The issue is tooling costs, so they need to do something that has mass volume appeal, thats why the DL sold so well. We did need a good GG1, and the BL is a wonderfull set, but (IMHO) the reason it didn't sell in the same numbers, is because partially the motive power. The GG1 is exculsive to PRR, NJDOT, and their respective later railroads. Now I know the GS4 was only with the SP, BUT the thing is with 4449 still being around AND running on a regular basis has an effect on the "arm chair modeler." I think it would be intresting to see how many people that have the GS4 and consist, or even just the loco, actually are SP modelers, AND model the lines where the GS4 actually ran, Vs. the same question with the GG1 and the BL. I know I have a GS4, 4449 even, and the only reason I have it, is because I like 4449, and have seen her quite a few times.

One of the things I have thought about though, if the BL was made with steam on the point, would the sales have been diffrent? Mabey for instance, the K-4, T-1, or better yet Vic's Atlantic!! 

[mcjaco]

Why do these threads pop up every few months?  Don't you guys have better things to complain about? 

[victor miranda]

And, Since the Atlas shop is a manufacturer sponsored forum, I can see the locking and advice to "take it to Kato"

Not saying I agree with the approach, but then again I don't post at Atlas for that and a whole ton of other reasons.

I have a recollection that the Atlas forum was for talking
about any train and model train related topic.

the reason for locking the topic was far more;
"I don't wanna hear it.... again."

the take it to Kato comment probably should have been skipped.

[Denver Road Doug]

I too had prepared...and sent....and lost due to lock...a long response to the Atlas thread.

I see this as the same discussion about why HO gets more stuff than N.   Market.   If Santa Fe outsells everything else 10-to-1, then guess what?

It's all about numbers.  Period.

I'll admit that Pennsy (representing the best of the best arguments for eastern roads) probably has good numbers, but then again I also think they have it better than they like to think.   The big point I was trying to make on the Atlas thread is that Pennsy modelers probably got a bad rap by being the first to really demand improved prototypical fidelity in n-scale. (in my mind, anyway...I don't go as far back as many of you though)  In doing that (which I personally applaud) they might have created a "reputation" and probably scared away some product development managers at the good n-scale manufacturers.  These days those kinds of expectations are the norm, so maybe you'll see things shift back to moving Pennsy and the other eastern stuff back on the radar screen.  Yet, counterpoint is the Broadway Limited sales which still weren't stellar from all accounts.   Were the models good?

So SPF rhetoric or not, it's still numbers.

I'm guessing there's probably a pretty obvious consensus of "Top 5" list of Pennsy locos, "Top 5" Pennsy Cars, "Top 5" Other Eastern Road locos, "Top 5" Other Eastern cars lists, no?  It would be interesting to see what those lists look like.  Maybe there's not a consensus and that's the issue...diluted demand?

[victor miranda]

Why do these threads pop up every few months?  Don't you guys have better things to complain about?

every few months...
what is my complaint?

[victor miranda]

I too had prepared...and sent....and lost due to lock...a long response to the Atlas thread.

I see this as the same discussion about why HO gets more stuff than N.   Market.   If Santa Fe outsells everything else 10-to-1, then guess what?

It's all about numbers.  Period.

I'll admit that Pennsy (representing the best of the best arguments for eastern roads) probably has good numbers, but then again I also think they have it better than they like to think.   The big point I was trying to make on the Atlas thread is that Pennsy modelers probably got a bad rap by being the first to really demand improved prototypical fidelity in n-scale. (in my mind, anyway...I don't go as far back as many of you though)  In doing that (which I personally applaud) they might have created a "reputation" and probably scared away some product development managers at the good n-scale manufacturers.  These days those kinds of expectations are the norm, so maybe you'll see things shift back to moving Pennsy and the other eastern stuff back on the radar screen.  Yet, counterpoint is the Broadway Limited sales which still weren't stellar from all accounts.   Were the models good?

So SPF rhetoric or not, it's still numbers.

I'm guessing there's probably a pretty obvious consensus of "Top 5" list of Pennsy locos, "Top 5" Pennsy Cars, "Top 5" Other Eastern Road locos, "Top 5" Other Eastern cars lists, no?  It would be interesting to see what those lists look like.  Maybe there's not a consensus and that's the issue...diluted demand?

how about I start with I agree with this post.
how about I repeat this:

western roads sell better than eastern roads.
the proof is that the SP DL far out sold the PRR BL.

It may well be that atsf sells 4 million to one on EVERYTHING.
but that fact does not make the proof true.

victor