The Contenders.

[2-8-8-0]

Hello folks.

Anyone reading my posts has no doubt noticed I am having some troubles picking a prototype. I am down to three eras/locales, the "contenders" if you will. I still have a thang for modern NS diesels, but can run those anytime the bug hits  ;D so am not counting that as a "prototype"

And the contenders are:

Chesapeake & Ohio, White Oak sub or maybe NF&G, in the "mid to late 1940s".
Pros: Good model availability, steam road, mallets. Beautiful countryside. This would be reasonably model railroad friendly.
Cons: I have no first hand knowledge of it, modeled to death by others, many signature items (Allegheny, H7, etc) still missing.

Western Maryland, in the "early 1960s" and where else but along the Potomac!
Pros: Actually an area I am familiar with, small road, beautiful scenery, decent availability of models, I dont need to kitbash any cursed steam engines! Very model railroad friendly.
Cons: No steam. I love WM, just oddly prefer it in the early diesel years.

PRR/NYC/NKP around Ashtabula, Ohio, in "the late 1940s"
Pros: Heavy industry, Lakes shipping, THREE (count em!) railroads with loads of goodies all over town, and, a big plus, I live here. SO researching it is, well, super easy. Shipyards. Steel Mills. Roundhouses!
Not small layout friendly at all.
Cons: All the above stuff. Buying models for THREE roads. Huge structures, even with compression. Limited availability of almost all signature items; only the LL 2-8-4, Model Power (blech) light 2-8-2, and Lifelike 0-8-0 are available.

Edit: But, one could ya see an NYC L4 Mohawk, PRR M1, and NKP S2 or S3 Berkshire all in one place! Someone needs to go start an argument on Trains.com about which one is "better"  ;D

Laters!

Well, Ill leave it at that. These discussions always go their own way anyways! Hard choice, given those kinda options!

[wm3798]

If I remember correctly, you're a young feller of modest means and limited space.  It really doesn't matter what you decide to do, these will be your limiting factors for some time to come. 

I think it's been recommended here that you start with a simple door layout.  Before you "do" any particular prototype, it's a good way to get a handle on your basic skill sets.  You have to know how to lay track, wire it, and build basic scenery before you can make it look or operate like any particular railroad.  Read up on Ed Kapuscinski's  "Kidney" project... it's a real eye opener on making a simple track plan capture the feel of what you're looking for.  Dr. Vollmer's PRR/Conrail door takes the idea to the next step.  There's much to be learned there, grass hopper.

If there's a railroad that you fancy, spend some time on line researching it.  (This doesn't mean opening 30 threads asking questions on the forum... Google it, see what's out there, then stop by here to fill in the blanks)  There are Historical Societies to join, books to take out of the Library, and museums to visit.  We can't sit here and tell you what line to model.  That has to come from the inner workings of what interests you.  If the WM is truly in your field of view, visit my website (linked below) and go to the Related Links tab.  You might need to take a day or two off of work, but it'll be worth it.

In the end, don't paralyze yourself worrying about how to fit an ore dock into the 3x5 space you have.  Accept that you can't, and build something, anything, that allows your train to move about on its own.  Once you have that little guy clickety clacking around, you'll be lulled into a zen-like state which will help you meditate on your choices.  We don't just make this stuff up.  It can take years of trial and error before you arrive at a plan that really lights you up.  Once you have something in view, we can help you bring it into focus.  But you've got to do some exploration first.

Lee

[lock4244]

I'd say go with the WM. Compact prototype for a compact space, interesting operations and availability of power and equipment.

^ Oh, I think there is some guy on this forum that dabbles in the WM once in a while 

[Rossford Yard]

It feels to me like you really like Astabula, and I went online to view the aerial.  There is a lot going on there!

If it were me, I would pick Astabula, but perhaps only model the junction in town or a shared mainline (or plausible shared main).  At least you can see various types of trains heading to the docks, steel mills, etc. and those of three RR, etc., while realistically (or more real) modeling a much smaller area. You might have to move some of the switching areas around to new locations if you like switching.

That is what the pros write about doing, selectively compressing, and I think they are right on in suggesting a smaller model area done better rather than trying to cram everything in.

If you choose to model the apparent steel mill there, that is easily done using those background photos and one Walthers Rolling Mill, built as a flat that is twice as long.  The actual docs would be possible if you can take your own photos, although the loop would be hard to do in reasonable space, and given the gravity dump, etc.  I think it would get boring pushing those coal hoppers around a loop anyway.  Maybe you could add a fictional repair or cleanout track if you want to switch coal hoppers?

Just my $0.03 but it seems like you like Astabula AND its the most interesting prototype. Why go away from your gut feel?  Just pick the best part, most easil modeled and maybe it can even survive into a later, larger layout as you move on in life.

[JoeD]

Go West Young Man...how about some real railroading and do the El Paso and Southwestern.  Lots of fun steam, long strings of hoppers and gons and wide open spaces.  Great road for someone with limited budgets and space and you don't have to deal with all that nasty coal dust back East or investing a lot of cash in trees and groundcover!   

Joe
MTL

[asciibaron]

my vote is for a door based on the WM - do Thomas on one side, a mine scene on the other and an L off to staging.

[NorfolkSouthern9708]

Well, are you looking for operations, or just run for fun?

[MichaelWinicki]

I think Lee made some good recommendations...

Why not take approach that Mark Peterson (Spookshow) did with his layouts?

Build one and either hang on to it and use it as a starting point for a larger one or just sell it.  

But the point is that this doesn't have to be the last layout you're going to build.  Use it as a stepping-stone just like he did.

As for my own preferences when deciding a time-frame I stepped right over anything that was steam-era related.  I'm not blown away by the selection of N-scale steam that's out there... Make that reliable N-scale steam.  And then you have the whole DCC issue, which I enjoy, which further slices the list down.

Maybe an era of about '55 to '65?  That would allow the use of B-B truck diesels along with 40' & 50' freight cars.  

[wm3798]

... and just play Devil's Advocate, the Western Maryland through the Potomac Valley is a beautiful area to model, but remember, you'll have to model the B&O, too, since they cross each other 9 or 10 times and interchange at least twice (depending on your era) along the way. 

Translated to a door layout, take a double track loop and put it low, then build a single track loop that's about 2.5" higher.  You'll have room for one long bridge on each side to represent a river crossing, and you can hide the return curves in tunnels on the WM, while the B&O hugs the shoreline.

There's also virtually no on-line business.  The line was built as a race track between Cumberland and Hagerstown.  It was highly engineered, very expensive to build, and was a large factor in the railroad's 1909 bankruptcy...  I would select the area between Cherry Run and Williamsport.  It's plenty scenic, there's a big quarry there, and with the B&O traffic from Cherry Run to Harrisburg, this represents the busiest part of the entire WM system.

Lee

[asciibaron]

I would select the area between Cherry Run and Williamsport.  It's plenty scenic, there's a big quarry there, and with the B&O traffic from Cherry Run to Harrisburg, this represents the busiest part of the entire WM system.

i like the idea of the B&o down low, but don't forget that Hancock was an active place, even in the early 1960's.  there were at least 5 customers there, a nice passing siding, and the bridge over Tonoloway Creek at the east end of town.

[wm3798]

That would be on the other side of the scenic divider.  Put the B&O under the town scene to get it out of the way.

Schnit.  Now I have to draw that up, because it sounds really cool.

 :

[David Leonard]

I'll just add a few other considerations for your enjoyment(!) If your layout is small or even medium sized, you may want to focus on one proto railroad with the others making "cameo" or interchange appearances only. If it turns out to be the Ashtabula area, I'd suggest the Nickel Plate in the mid to late fifties. You have a good selection of both diesel and steam (2-8-4's, 0-8-0's, Kato Mikes), and both NYC and PRR were largely dieselized in the Ashtabula area by that time, the Pennsy crossing the NKP with an interchange track and connecting track. I don't recall that the NYC and NKP had any interchange, since they were parallel routes. Take a look at old Maptech geological survey mapa for more ideas.

The drawback to Ashtabula for a small layout is that none of the lines had any serious curves and would be hard to represent on a small looped layout. If you have looped track or major curves on your layout, you might want to consider modeling a mountainous area where tracks could be hidden from view or at least justified by the geography.

I myself ended up with planning for for a medium sized midwest river town in which curves and rolling hills feel appropriate. But it is not Astabula.

[AlkemScaleModels]

Chesapeake & Ohio, White Oak sub or maybe NF&G, in the "mid to late 1940s".
Pros: Good model availability, steam road, mallets. Beautiful countryside. This would be reasonably model railroad friendly.
Cons: I have no first hand knowledge of it, modeled to death by others, many signature items (Allegheny, H7, etc) still missing.

The C&O didn't run H-7s and H-8s on the NF&G or White Oak sub, so you are OK there. You'll need H-5, H-6s and Class locos if you want to do steam, all available in N scale to some degree of prototype fidelity.

NF&G was a joint op with NYC. The Kato Mike is perfect for use on the NYC NG&G.

There was a big saw mill at Rainelle with standard gauge shays as well as a joint engine terminal for C&O-NYC. The HAER has a lot of info on the Rainelle Saw Mill.  The track there was a maze with loops and all criss crosses. All very modelgenic.

[seusscaboose]

And the contenders are:


PRR/NYC/NKP around Ashtabula, Ohio, in "the late 1940s"
Pros: Heavy industry, Lakes shipping, THREE (count em!) railroads with loads of goodies all over town, and, a big plus, ... Limited availability of almost all signature items; only the LL 2-8-4, Model Power (blech) light 2-8-2, and Lifelike 0-8-0 are available.

my wallet and basement full of NKP trains will disagree.  The NKP signature item (in your era) is the Berkshire.  all of the other different steam is avaialble in some fashion as well.  The Mikado is the best steam engine out there... and they offer it in NKP.  The Berk's are available (both old Rivarossi and recent Walthers).  

also... the freight car selection is extensive as well... with mulitple manufacturers and multiple road numbers of any number of hopper cars and box cars and gondola's... not to mention cabooses.

Then, after all that... there is the ol' strip it down and repaint it" method... where you can pretty much get decals for anything.. and if not, then there are resources available to print you some (on this forum).

for my 2 cents... if you are sitting in Ashtabula... The NKP is the way to go.  

it's not like you are in the hills of PA, lakeside in Buffalo, or the hills of western Maryland working the coal fields.

you're pre-ordained (it is a religion after all) to do "High Speed Service".  

Face it.
 ;D

[wm3798]

Not to scale.  But I'm thinking if you minimum radius around 13.75, you should be able to run just about anything.  Make the outside B&O loop 15" and you can run a passenger train on that Maybe use those Bachmann shorty heavyweights, which I'm pretty sure they offered in Beano, and pull a short freight with a GP-9 or two on the inner loop.  A few years earlier, you can get a Model Power Pacific to stand in for P-7, and a Bachmann Connie can do the honors on the revenue train.  Then up on the WM, run your laps, switch your cars. Use the runaround to reverse directions.  A pair of A-A F units would the power up there.  Fireballs on the F units will work in a transition era rig.  The WM was fully dieselized by 1954, a few years earlier than the B&O.  The Bachmann Connie looks good in WM garb as well.  Use Atlas Deck Truss bridges to scab together the long river crossing, with a through truss over the B&O.

For variety, you could add a couple of sidings under Hancock to stage two more Beano trains, and you could build an L shelf yard coming off the WM at Stickpile.

If you need some rocks from the Potomac Valley for scenery, let me know.  I have a 10 lb. bag of them...

Don't say I never did anything nice for you.

Hmmm.  I like that so much I might have to build it.  I need a new test loop by the workbench anyway, don't I?... ;D

Lee