Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...

[2-8-8-0]

Probably isnt news to anyone else, but apparently BLI has released a PRR I-1 (even with two different tenders, no less) and after peeking at their website, just has a whole slew of things listed on there that are out or will be soon (in BLI terms, whatever that means) and ive read rumor (who knows if theyre good, but maybe someone can confirm) that they have an L1 in the works.

Thats the whole PRR big four; M1, L1 (if it happens, and lets face it, it probably will) K4, I1, available in HO, and all are nice lookin models. And a bunch of other stuff for PRR; big Ts and Qs and stuff that they never ran many of, or for very long, but hey, theyre makin models of 'em.

The N scale PRR M1 is the only steamer in N...and still listed on their website. Cruel. Meh...I hate BLI.

So, what do you guys think...will the manufacturers ever take N seriously, and start producing some of this nifty stuff for us? A huge factor in my picking C&O for a prototype was simply that there are a few good lookin locos available (like 5, if you count the spectrum 2-8-0 and LL 0-8-0 as fine outta the box, and live with LLs 2-8-4) and thats probably as good as steam in N gets for representing a prototype. C&O may even be the most completely represented one, even with so many important types missing.

I couldnt go back to HO now, the models look humungus, and teeny N scale cars and locos sure are easier to store. But wow do I hope we get some of this nifty stuff coming our way, someday...my criteria for a prototype (after giving up on B&O steam) was it had to be 1) a northeastern road, 2) run steam engines, and 3) be reasonably well represented in N. Not fun, but hey, C&O is cool, and boy did they run mallets!

How about SOMETHING with a belpaire firebox for the PRR peeps? I wouldnt mind one or two for myself, anyways...this might make me rethink the whole Ashtabula-themed layout, anyways. Meh.

I probably have had too much caffeine.

[Rossford Yard]

When S scale has more stuff than N, then we will be out behind the woodshed, IMHO>

[up1950s]

When S scale has more stuff than N, then we will be out behind the woodshed, IMHO>

So whats the placement ?

1 HO
2 N
3 O
4 G
5 Z
6 S

[sundowner]

BLI is dead to most N-scaler, so no we are not the red headed step child.

[Rossford Yard]

BLI may just be dead period. Bad business model and business men, I think.  But, some N scalers would say they lost millions just to spite us! Well, the showed us, didn't they? ;D

[Nato]

  Well I bought two GN E-7's one with sound and one without when they were Precision Craft (Crap) and was really suprised when many moons later when they re emerged under BLI and  the UP E-8/9's with sound I had way back ordered materialized ,but as much as I want a PRR 4-8-2 because I had plastic toy ones from Banner Plastics as a Kid and I knew what the protype loco was from info in a Kip Farrington book Broadway is on my out list and I have to agree it is poor business modeling, it is not because one scale is favored over another, if a company that specialized in N Scale and a little HO used the same way of doing business we would still have the same situation only it would be the HOers complaining .              Nate Goodman (Nato).

[Kevin Yutz]

If i had to throw out a placement given the fact im both a G scaler and an N scaler ( dont ask why lol) this is my thought of placement of availability.  G scale is envisioned of having alot....welll there aint that much for a North American modeler.

1 HO
2 O
3 N
4 Z
5 G
6 S

N honestly can get way more than G scale right now and I envision it will stay that way in the future.

To give you an idea from one major G scale manufacturer( Aristocraft) in the modern offerings area they have : 100 ton hopper, 53' evans boxcar, roadrailers..rest of their offerings are older style stuff...50s era refrig cars etc etc.  THen you have USA Trains...who has currently coal hoppers, 4 bay centerflows, modern tankcars, intermodal well cars and soon 60 foot boxes and an autorack coming next year. 

Still that aint exactly alot of offerings and thats just the rolling stock department......and they have like 30 paint schemes available alot of which are fictional as I believe USAT at least is upscaling O scale items ( its owned by Charles Ro...BIG O scale seller too)

At least the G scale manufacturers have a decent modern diesel offering with Aristo doing the Dash 9s, SD45s and GP40s among others and USA with the SD70MAC and SD40-2..but they both have the same paint scheme issue as some schemes arent actually proto...not that im a huge rivet counter.

G's another one of those scales where if you want it...you build it.. but im sure some of you N scale guys do the same....

[Rossford Yard]

I've never looked into what is available in scale O, but would presume N is clearly in second place to HO, isn't it?

[Bob Bufkin]

I would place N in second place.  I honestly believe that O is a slowly dying scale.  It's usually done by older modelers (I'm one myself but never got the bug for O) who have the money to buy.  O is overly expensive in my opinion.  Also not a lot of room for an O layout for most people.  I know some of you do O scale and the photos I've seen are great.  Not trying to knock O scale in any way.  This is just my personala observations.

[AlkemScaleModels]

I honestly believe that O is a slowly dying scale.  It's usually done by older modelers (I'm one myself but never got the bug for O) who have the money to buy.  O is overly expensive in my opinion.  Also not a lot of room for an O layout for most people.  I know some of you do O scale and the photos I've seen are great.  Not trying to knock O scale in any way.  This is just my personala observations.

I do N and O for fun, and produce some HO kits to make money. It is easier to find N scale stuff in a hobby shop than O. There are a lot of details etc available in O but you have to order them. Very few shops stock them, P&D in Detroit area being a good exception. But i don't travel there much anymore.

My impression is that standard gauge O scale is holding its own, especially the tin plate/3 rail  side. On30 is growing like wildfire. It is the fastest growing segment of the hobby according to an article I read a few years ago, but I don't think it is bigger than N.

My experience as a cottage manufacturer is that when I do a kit, I'll sell 3 to 4 times as many HO models compared to N and will have a better profit margin on them for the essentially the same amount of work. Doesn't take a genius to figure that business model out. The only reasons I bother with N is cause I or my friends need items. So we make them. Anybody trying to make money, real money will take a hard look at N scale.

[Rossford Yard]

Careful Bernie, you might get lumped with Walthers as having a crap attitude towards N scale and not caring about quality products, even though you clearly do! 

Nice to have the insight of 3-4X sales in HO to cover the general overhead costs.  To paraphrase our VP, thats no ordinary difference, thats a big *&##ing difference! ;D

I have heard the difference is less in rolling stock than it would be in structures, etc. because N scalers use N Trak to run 100 car trains.  The 3-4X in structures and details probably explains why Walthers does not do their lesser selling structures in N, since there would be a risk of losing money.

[AlkemScaleModels]

Careful Bernie, you might get lumped with Walthers as having a crap attitude towards N scale and not caring about quality products, even though you clearly do! 

Nice to have the insight of 3-4X sales in HO to cover the general overhead costs.  To paraphrase our VP, thats no ordinary difference, thats a big *&##ing difference! ;D

I have heard the difference is less in rolling stock than it would be in structures, etc. because N scalers use N Trak to run 100 car trains.  The 3-4X in structures and details probably explains why Walthers does not do their lesser selling structures in N, since there would be a risk of losing money.

Could be. I don't do any RTR stuff and the numbers may be different. In general N scalers don't like kits with the denizens of this forum being the exceptions. I love scratch building in all scales, but I have been known to buy some of the Atlas built-ups for my N scale modules.

[Rossford Yard]

Bernie,

I don't dislike kits, but have been known to buy built ups and even others already builts, which seem to be continuously on sale at the LHS in the consignment sections.  When doing an urban layout, if I can get something prebuilt for not a lot more than kit form, I figure my time is worth something, given my ultimate goal is a layout and not just kitbuilding.

That said, I wonder if the new rise in the Yuan, announced yesterday and just the start, may bring us kicking and screaming back to the day where we have to install grab irons, couplers, and trucks in our rolling stock to keep costs down.  In structures, I always tought Walthers HO snap together line was a good idea - presumably cheaper than paying labor to put it together, without the mess of glue and a lot faster for the modeler.  I wonder if those kinds of ideas will resurface by our mfgs.

[2-8-8-0]

O wow, thanks for the insight to the HO to N sales and profit difference. I do understand that businesses wanna make money, and that is of course why they are in business. I wouldnt do any different myself I guess.

My original point was that there seem to be some basic, fundamental items missing from N; some sort of PRR steam anything is a big one, but how about the SD-40, NS 9-40CW, some sort of 2-10-2 that dosent suck...these things would HAVE to sell well enough to be profitable. It is getting better; im pretty stoked that I can get TWO different C&O mallets in N, plus a few other C&O goodies. Modern 6 axle diesels and modern freight cars seem to be relatively well represented, I suppose because big diesels and cars lend themselves well  to N (and katos diesels just are awesome, that dosent hurt)

I wonder what the ratio is, of those who model "Modern" say 1985 or newer, to those of us before that period, in N scale...

I dont expect a manufacturer to tool up and make specific locos of unusual or odd types; but come on, SD40s, 2-10-2s or a PRR L1 arent unusual or odd. Yet, somehow, the Big Boy and the BL-1 both made it?

odd is all.

[AlkemScaleModels]

O wow, thanks for the insight to the HO to N sales and profit difference. I do understand that businesses wanna make money, and that is of course why they are in business. I wouldnt do any different myself I guess.

My original point was that there seem to be some basic, fundamental items missing from N; some sort of PRR steam anything is a big one, but how about the SD-40, NS 9-40CW, some sort of 2-10-2 that dosent suck...these things would HAVE to sell well enough to be profitable. It is getting better; im pretty stoked that I can get TWO different C&O mallets in N, plus a few other C&O goodies. Modern 6 axle diesels and modern freight cars seem to be relatively well represented, I suppose because big diesels and cars lend themselves well  to N (and katos diesels just are awesome, that dosent hurt)

I wonder what the ratio is, of those who model "Modern" say 1985 or newer, to those of us before that period, in N scale...

I dont expect a manufacturer to tool up and make specific locos of unusual or odd types; but come on, SD40s, 2-10-2s or a PRR L1 arent unusual or odd. Yet, somehow, the Big Boy and the BL-1 both made it?

odd is all.

Didn't Kato do SD40s? I have a detail kit for it. Still have some if anybody needs 'em.