Author Topic: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...  (Read 5441 times)

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Rossford Yard

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2010, 08:13:47 AM »
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David,

Well, I would like to think all those Ebay sales in HO were them getting out of the scale, while the 15% N was people staying in the scale.....

That said, your indicator shows 3X HO and Bernie, a multi scale mfg, says his HO sales are 3-4X N for similar items.  That does seem to be a trend.  I also recall the last MR survey (years ago) showed 16% of their readers were in N.  We like to think (see above) that our scale may have grown to 20% in the last decade, but perhaps it isn't true.  Perhaps 15% of participation is sort of a natural level for N, and HO is still the undisputed king, rather than wilting in favor of a smaller scale as O did 70 years ago.

Oh the humanity! ;D

Rossford Yard

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2010, 08:37:39 AM »
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In a more serious vein, these threads may show why HO is still dominant - and it is because of the general availability of more stuff.  I would surmise that only a percentage - maybe 15% of us choose a scale based on getting more MRR in the same space.  Most of us (N scalers included) love the trains more than the layout, so the scale with the most availability continues to win out.

It appears most modelers accept the  4 x 8 and other compromises in favor of getting the trains of the era/road they really love.  And those of us who choose for ability to run longer trains, have to live with the laments of less products (and thankfully, the opportunity to vent on internet boards!)

What do we think of that theory?

DKS

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2010, 08:47:22 AM »
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Well, I would like to think all those Ebay sales in HO were them getting out of the scale, while the 15% N was people staying in the scale...

Bear in mind that a healthy percentage of eBay sales are from shops, as well as individuals. With the volumes involved, I tend to think this helps average out the "why is it for sale" aspect.

In a more serious vein, these threads may show why HO is still dominant - and it is because of the general availability of more stuff.

I think this may be but one (possibly major) aspect of a many-faceted explanation for the distribution of scale popularity. Consider some other possible factors: "I started in HO as a kid..."; "I have eyesight/eye-hand coordination problems..."; "I've had this 40x60 layout for 30 years, I'm not about to switch scales..."; "N scale is just a toy..."; etc., etc. I worked at hobby shops through college, and I've heard a whole bunch of these first hand...
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 08:50:54 AM by David K. Smith »

Rossford Yard

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2010, 08:53:56 AM »
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David,

I was kidding on my first post, of course.  And, all of us have probably put excess stuff up for sale without changing scales.  We do it to buy even more stuff in our chosen scale in most cases.  That and the hobby shop sales tend to support your EBay theory, IMHO.

Yes, it is expensive to change scales. I did it in 1990, but had moved and disposed of most of my HO stuff, realized that I liked long trains more than anything, and was in Texas, the land of no basements.  It made perfect sense to me, but inertia and cost tend to keep HO guys in HO, although I would bet a large percentage of folks reading this post switched from HO at some point.

inkaneer

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2010, 02:46:46 PM »
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Around here O scale is big, really big.  At the Greenberg shows there is more O scale than HO.  And it really doesn't matter if it is tinplate, 027, scale or whatever.  It is still O Scale.  For some reason, despite the advances in N Gauge, the last 20 years has not seen N Gauge reach that magical "tipping point" where manufacturers will take a chance and build that limited appeal engine with a reasonable expectation that the number of sales needed to make a go of it will be there.  So we are stuck with the present preorder system which in itself will severely limit any future growth.

up1950s

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2010, 02:57:28 PM »
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Large HO stuff on eBay could aslo reflect the selling off of the HO because they have switched to N .


Richie Dost

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2010, 03:38:39 PM »
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Ah, what I had hoped for! Serious discussion about what is going on; next time i start a thread, ill kvetch less and serious question more, and get to the nitty gritty.

I go to a regional campus of Kent State University that has a very limited selection of bachelor's degree programs (changing thankfully) and the only "academic" bachelor's we offer currently is a BA in English; we sure have a lot of english majors as well. But, the question is;

Are they at my campus because they're english majors, or are they english majors because they attend this campus?

I suspect the N/HO scale disparity is quite similar; N still suffers from a limited amount of stuff (and like Kent State Ashtabula, it is improving!) but for now, I suspect a lot of HO scalers are HO scale because whatever road/loco/widgets they want, are not available in N.

Of course, I may be all wet; I chose N (after a stint in HO) because I like the smaller size. I can fit more in a given space, and I can run longer trains in that given space. My original choice of roads (B&O) isnt particularly well represented in N, so I picked C&O. Better, but still nowhere near the C&O goodies in N as there are in HO.

Still, I couldnt change now. I look at an HO loco (I have a HO NS -9 that lives on my bookcase) and the detail is gorgeous, but it sure looks....huge.

N isnt a red headed stepchild for me, but some of the manufacturers treat it like it is; thankfully, some (Atlas, Bachmann, Kato and others) are taking N very very seriously, and tbh, I am really thinking we dont need them anyway, and it sure is nice! Now, if they would just make a standard cab, slab sided good ol' SD-70!

I would LOVE to know Kato's ratio of sales of N to HO...I bet theirs leans in favor of N, oddly, and Atlas cant be far off either.
Just say no to dummy couplers.

AlkemScaleModels

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2010, 09:52:11 PM »
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I listened to Craig Martin on the Scotty Mason Show tonight saying though he started in N, he needed to expand to HO to be a real business. Hopefully I paraphrased him correctly.

FloridaBoy

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Re: Ok, N is officially the red headed stepchild...
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2010, 06:11:37 AM »
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This topic has stimulated a lot of internalizing and deep thought about my approach and affection to both scales.  I got into N "naturally" because when I did, it was no extrovertical decision to do so.  It was like osmosis.  Back in '82, I was back into trains after a sports injury, and built a 4x8 HO layout in my garage, which had both my older childhood trains and newer acquisitions, including some Roundhouse steam kits which I built.  You could say I was deeply into HO at the time.

Then a friend shows me his N layout and how much he could fit on a given space with plenty of scenery to boot.  So I go and build a small 2x4, put it on my workbench, with a small loop, and a few locos my friend gave me.  That summer my HO layout expands with the heat, and develops a small glitch which occasionally derails a few of my locos and rolling stock when running.  Hard to find, but harder to reach the accidents victims, if you know what I mean.

I tend to be lazy sometimes, and found myself gravitating toward that little N scale loop to run trains without glitches, and between the two stimulants, running on my friend's layout and the beautiful little Rivarossi Berkshire puffing around my N track, I soon developed a passion for N.  From there I never stopped.

I wonder how many guys in N started out in other scales, particularly HO, and from reading just about every post for 7 years on 4 forums (some yes, are newer) it is because people were restricted some way for space, or reach, and wanted to get more railroading per square foot.  A lot of us started somewhere else.

I still model in HO, as I have an HO switching layout in my home, and run trains on my friend's 5x9 HO layout which was professionally made with no glitches.  I love N, I like HO, and have the train inventories in both to prove it, so to speak.  Each has its advantages, but again so does Z, O (I model 2 rail Proto 48) and G. 

Never thinking myself as an expert whatever, as I have met a lot of people who know more on their fingertip than I do, for sure, and many are on this forum and others.  However, the hobby has taken a downturn in soFla due to several factors, and I have probably in the upper level of maintained consistent enthusiasm, and now forming another home to home workshop club of guys.

I am beginning to see myself a model railroader since starting to repair others' locos and rolling stock in all scales.  I have the most passion toward N, but even when working on others' trains not even in my scale, I certainly have a deep appreciation for the hobby, despite all of the outside interferences.  I just ignore them. 

What I am concluding is to love the scale or scales you are in, model them to death, look forward to your time modeling trains each session, and that is the very depth of the love for this hobby, and it is internal and personal.  When someone rips my scale(s) or rips the hobby, especially bored wives of my friends who call them "cute", I see them as ignorant and uninformed.  I do not cut golfers for chasing a little ball around acres and acres on a hot summer day just to hit it in the little hole, every pastime can be criticized for content.  I just say, don't pay attention, just enjoy what you got and go for places you can achieve. 

I have a friend who just retired and always dreamed of an N scale layout, and he is in the early stages.  It is great to see him cope with the limitations of N, build his layouts, experience the joys and triumph with his successes, and he is a fanatic.  That rubs off. Let your enthusiasm wear the naysayers out.

Ken "Floridaboy" Willaman