Interesting post by Charlie Vlk about Kato's business plan

[sundowner]

 Also, since the US based manufacturers know about the glacial release rate of Kato locomotives, I doubt that would slow down US manufacturers from offering something Kato already offers.  Just my $.02.

Erik

Why can't we get a SD40-2? (I agree Kato's presence should not prevent anyone else from making SD40-2s).

Mark

Good question.  Maybe my opinion was really just my $.01 cent worth.  Or . . . SD40-2s are really just a 5th tier locomotive.  ;D

Erik

The real question is why Atlas has none done them yet. When IM does them I will not be getting any after my SD45-2 experience. Like I said it comes down to quality and so far the IM SD do not have it.

[sundowner]

I agree with you 100%.  If given the choice, I'd much prefer Kato's over Athearn's.  But, I am curious if, using the SP SD70 as an example, Athearn producing theirs more often with more road numbers will make Kato think twice about rerunning theirs (or if it won't)?

Erik

a

I don't thing they care what Athearns does, they just redid there flare 70m on the 70ace mech and are even doing a second set of numbers for NS while Athearn did a re-release of theres.

[bicknell]

Leo, with all due respect, I don't see a big market for that sort of thing (cheater boxcars).  Maybe because I'm not an N trakker, but even there, I don't see much of a need.  Saturday I ran a 30-car train behind a single Bachmann 2-8-0 with few if any hiccups.  Steam era would be the only practical application for such a beast, and newer steam locomotives are getting better, or can generally be made better.  Also, steam era trains tended to be shorter anyway, so where's the need?

It is of interest only to the steam market, but I think there are three sorts of folks that want it:

NTrak / large layout folks.  A berk pulled a 100 car train in real life, and you're lucky to get 30 out of the model.

People who have layouts with heavy grades.  I know a couple of folks with mid-sized layouts but that have 3-4% grades.  They have some steam, but don't run them often due to the fact that they can only run 5-7 car trains and then still have problems.  Such a thing would provide operational reliability and more fun.

Lastly, it makes steamers that are not practical, practical.  The Atlas mogul looks cool, but to fit in the motor it's all jackrabbit starts and can't pull much at all.  I don't know about most other people, but I don't run mine just because it takes fussing with the whole time.  A cheater box car could make it work smooth.  Consider models like a 4-4-0, we'll likely not have a good one, ever, due to the physics involved.  But if there was a cheater box car, well, an /unpowered/ 4-4-0 becomes interesting.  That plus a cheater could be good.

So I think with every steam engine release you sell another small batch of these, and possibly enlarge the steam engine market at the same time!

[Mark5]

Not to answer my own question, but here are some Kato releases by date.  The info is a cut and paste from the Amherst Depot site, to give credit where credit is due, but with the actual numbers of locos they still have in stock edited out.

This is all very cute and I'm loving all the N&W releases but make this view the last seven years only and what do we have? You know, the "what have you done for me lately?" thing.

Mark

The SD80Mac and SD70M both got NS releases, with the 70M in the second release in the correct number boards.  I have a dash 9 in NS - well, actually its the undec with decals to represent those dash 9's that went into service before painting in a ghost gray scheme.  What modern loco hasn't been released in NS by Kato? Or are you saying Kato should back date their product line rather than continue to focus mostly on modern six axle power?

I would check further, but the AD site is down right now. BTW, the general attitude of the mfgs not doing enough for you has now extended to other forumers not doing enough research for you?  I mean, your post strikes me as another perfect example of how whatever happens in N scale is unlikely to be good enough for some people.  If you want to complain about your N scale lot in life, then I guess you will find a way to do it, eh?

Lol. Did you read my post?

ON the NS side (since you mentioned it) Kato did release a C44-9W as a NS C40-9W, as recently as 1996! (or was it 1997?) The C40-9W is a signature loco for NS BTW - they have over a thousand of them.

Side note, at least NW and NS are the easiest to paint loco schemes depending on the exact era you are modeling, so count that as a blessing.

And your point is? This is pointless without a loco to paint. Besides, I am not arguing for N&W locos. I have about 40 locos lined up for the paint shop as it is All of them need to have details and other modifications (hi-noses!) as there VERY few locos off the shelf that work for N&W proper (I enjoy this aspect of the hobby). I'm sorry that I joked about N&W as this became a pointless diversion. 

Again ... Looking at the past 7 years, what do modelers now entering or returning to the hobby have to choose from by Kato? Citing releases from 1987 is irrelevant.

Cheers,

Mark

[Mark5]

I mean, your post strikes me as another perfect example of how whatever happens in N scale is unlikely to be good enough for some people.  If you want to complain about your N scale lot in life, then I guess you will find a way to do it, eh?

You seem to be singling me out here - what's up with that? I don't appreciate the personal attack.

There is a chorus of people hoping that someone other than Kato will release SD40-2s. They did the "early" and "snoots" TEN years ago.

Are we just hopeless whiners?

Cheers,

Mark

[C855B]

... Looking at the past 7 years, what do modelers now entering or returning to the hobby have to choose from by Kato? Citing releases from 1987 is irrelevant.

Being one of them a-for-mentioned re-tur-nees...

Earlier releases are not really all that irrelevant, Mark, and this could be some of Kato's current problem with the US market - I think they've hit market saturation with the older "core" models and know it. Lots of old Kato is out there for purchase - I've fleshed-out a pretty respectable fleet of Kato off of eBay over the past two years, most new or TRO, and not at crazy prices, either. Need an SD45? There are 11 up right now. SD40 or 40-2? 53.

Even bagged an undec U30C early last year. With all the hand-wringing about "no more U30C's, ever!" because of an alleged broken mold, my demand is filled and yet there remains a steady trickle available in the aftermarket going for usually less - sometimes much less - than original MSRP. Compare that to, say, Con-Cor U50's of any generation, where they're going for 6X what I paid in 1977.

IOW, if we were seeing big prices and hot bidding for old(er) Kato in resale, we'd have a bone to pick with their market strategy. But we're not. I'm thankful they're still thinking about us transition and 2nd-gen modelers with the NW2 - I can't imagine that would have been a high-demand item in the home market.  :-\

[Rossford Yard]

Mark,

Yeah, I tend to think we are hopeless whiners as a group.  

Sorry for picking on you, but it still seems that every loco Kato has made has been made in NS if they ran them, albeit a few like the C449 are just close stand ins. And, while I am not very much different from you in what I have on the workbench or storage shelves loco wise, an impartial and indelicate observer (like a wife, perhaps!) might wonder why you need even more Kato locos if you have 40 unfinished products already stalled in making their way to your layout?  Of course that gets into the whole discussion about wants and needs and how we N scalers sometimes get those two mixed up and intertwined!

The original post was about Kato not doing enough American stuff period, which is their right and most of the posts here are discussion of just why that might be.  I was addressing complaints here about not doing eastern roads, which is just not true based on actual releases.
 
The hope for a re-released SD40-2 is certainly valid, since Kato seemingly could do it fairly easily. But, some have posted reasons why it isn't as easy as it sounds (production capacity, world wide markets, more prototypical fidelity emphasis requiring retooling) I haven't seen an NS SD40-2 ever.  I still see lots of Kato's newer release SD70M in NS (released 2005) and SD90Mac (released 2002) at train shows and LHS.  That has always been the reason I figure they don't make a lot of them, as they seem to sit around longer than the western roads.

I take it that NS or undec units from previous releases don't show up on EBay because of relative scarcity?

So, Kato is holding the cards on the SD40-2, although IM is doing the tooling for the SD40-2 Wide Cab and could do more. I personally probably wouldn't buy an IM version (of course, I don't need any more locos so its not a valid comparison) but I am not waiting for Kato either.

[lock4244]

Milwaukee Rd.  Black & Orange- White Letters No# . .
Milwaukee Rd.  Black & Orange- Black Letters 365

Two variations of MILW, the only loco with two road numbers in that release!

Going back a long way and the memory is fuzzy, but IIRC the two MILW were on account of an error on the first one (white lettering) and the second was released as a correction.

One nice thing about Kato's often glacial releases is that when I get up the nerve to sell my 4 CN C44's, they'll still be the only factory release of them for CN.

I didn't recall that blunder on MILW. I do recall a flub on the BNSF SD70Mac painting where the undecs were taken out to use as repaints.

Not true on CN, as the SD40-2 was released twice in CN colors, on both the first release and then a re-release in 2006, with IC sub lettering, I believe.  The F3 and F7 came in CN, as did the RDC and Mikado, if that interestst you.

'Cept I was talkin's about the C44 

[Rossford Yard]

Mike,

Wasn't sure about your wording, but answered in the collector runner mode, without really considering the profit potential....

[Rossford Yard]

And not to rub it in for NS modelers, but MBK has a closeout special on NS SD70M. Of all the road names, NS has the most left in stock - 39 at this moment, vs just a couple for most other road names.  And WKW has an NS SD9 on the last call page.

Idle question, but where would the NW Pochantas (I think) and streamlined steamer for their 1980's excursion trips rank with Kato as a future premier passenger train release compared to the NYC, GN, NP or B and O? I would think the appeal would be pretty high given the looks of the loco and the excursions that make people familiar with it.

[wm3798]

Powhattan Arrow... and probably pretty low since Bachmann already did the engine.

[Mark5]

Need an SD45? There are 11 up right now. SD40 or 40-2? 53.

I just searched on SD40-2s ... got 22 hits after ignoring other kato locos that for some reason have SD40-2 in the text ... of these only a couple are early or snoot versions (I "need" early versions").

The new ones are easy to get ... but they are different versions (MBK has tons of the new ones).

When I finally settled down and bought a house in 1999, I decided to pick up a couple Kato F7s to paint up in N&W just for fun. Back then, it was a bit of a "holy grail" quest to get a couple with double headlights.

(Unfortunately, I'm still fixing up the fixer upper house I bought  : )

It would be nice if they would offer F7s in UNDEC for folks that don't model UP, GN, or ATSF.

Cheers,

Mark

[Mark5]

Powhattan Arrow... and probably pretty low since Bachmann already did the engine.

Yeah, highly unlikely as Kato seems (justifiably so) to want to get synergies from loco sales to go with the train sets.

That said, the Arrow would be an easy train for someone to do as the 1949 version consisted of two types of coaches, one diner, and one observation.

Fortunately, correct decals for N&W passenger cars came out recently (the Microscale ones were complete duds).

Mark

[C855B]

Fortunately, correct decals for N&W passenger cars came out recently (the Microscale ones were complete duds).

Oh?... Where? Who?

Don't smite me    but I need some N&W decals to put on some old Rivarossi and Con-Cor streamline coaches as foobies to pull behind my 611. I'm catching grief for running it with my UP cars, the excuse being that they were "borrowed from Steve Lee".

[Mark5]

Fortunately, correct decals for N&W passenger cars came out recently (the Microscale ones were complete duds).

Oh?... Where? Who?

Don't smite me    but I need some N&W decals to put on some old Rivarossi and Con-Cor streamline coaches as foobies to pull behind my 611. I'm catching grief for running it with my UP cars, the excuse being that they were "borrowed from Steve Lee".

Here ya go!

http://www.shellscale.com/ho123.htm