Interesting post by Charlie Vlk about Kato's business plan

[mcjaco]

In short, I haven't seen any real ATSF/UP bias when looking over these releases.

You're letting facts get in the way!  

[Rossford Yard]

Yeah, that is what I am kind of saying, so many of these rants aren't based on fact, but somehow, the mfgs have to put up with them to the point where they become accepted fact.

To balance rumors out here, I recall Atlas getting called out years ago on these forums for their supposed "eastern bias" because of their NJ location.  As the story went, Paul Graf and co. released only loco types that they needed for their layouts! ???

Looking back at Kato releases, in general, all releases had the big roads, east and west, if those roads ran the loco and a few small roads mixed in. For their newer prototypes, there just aren't as many roads to go around in modern times.

In 1995, the SD45 offerings included D and H, WC, GN, EL, CP and even the friggin Reading for God sakes!

the U30 had D and H and Pennsy and Rock Island!

The SD 40 had Algoma Central.

But, don't let the facts change your opinions, please.  These forums would whither and die.

[Rossford Yard]

Well, now that I am ranting myself, I wonder if the relative health of the Japanese N scale market has anything to do with the Kato business decisions.  Didn't I read somewhere that N scale participation was really high in Japan?  While hard to believe that Japanese kids aren't just as enthralle with video games as their US counterparts, in many ways, I think Japan is slower to change than the US and older men may be still modeling in higher percentages than here.

Thus, the Kato decision to pay attention to that market makes loads of sense, and since the other mfgs we mention don't compete with Japanese products, they probably get a lot of local complaints there saying that "We need you Kato, while the US N scalers have others making product!"  Yes, I know there are some other Japanese mfgs making Japanese stuff, too, but I imagine the competition is less.

We are lucky that others are jumping into the market for us, just as Japanese modeler are lucky that Kato is looking out for them.  So, we all win.

BTW, is there a Kato equivalent to the Atlas forum?  Is there a Japanese model railroad forum?

[Mark5]

Not to answer my own question, but here are some Kato releases by date.  The info is a cut and paste from the Amherst Depot site, to give credit where credit is due, but with the actual numbers of locos they still have in stock edited out.

This is all very cute and I'm loving all the N&W releases but make this view the last seven years only and what do we have? You know, the "what have you done for me lately?" thing.

Mark

[sundowner]

I have no problem with the way Kato does it business, the have treated my road CSX pretty well. I got a bunch of AC44, SD70m, SD70mac, SD80mac, SD40-2, SD40, foobie CW44-9 and C30-7 they have made for CSX and will be getting the SD70aces and ES44AC from them when they come out this year, I even have a pair of Seaboard RSC-2 that they made.  ;D

[Erik W]

I wonder if Kato's US offerings will decline as direct competition in the market place becomes greater.  For example Kato has done a standard SD70 in Southern Pacific with 2 road numbers.  Athearn has done two runs of the same SD70 with 6 road numbers.  I would guess Kato may modify any previous plans to run SP SD70s because the demand for them is now smaller.  Also, since the US based manufacturers know about the glacial release rate of Kato locomotives, I doubt that would slow down US manufacturers from offering something Kato already offers.  Just my $.02.

Erik

[Mark5]

I have no problem with the way Kato does it business, the have treated my road CSX pretty well. I got a bunch of AC44, SD70m, SD70mac, SD80mac, SD40-2, SD40, foobie CW44-9 and C30-7 they have made for CSX and will be getting the SD70aces and ES44AC from them when they come out this year, I even have a pair of Seaboard RSC-2 that they made.

You must have been in the hobby since pre-history (like me!). What would you say to someone only now entering the hobby ... just model UP, BNSF, ATSF or GN?

Mark

[Mark5]

 Also, since the US based manufacturers know about the glacial release rate of Kato locomotives, I doubt that would slow down US manufacturers from offering something Kato already offers.  Just my $.02.

Erik

Why can't we get a SD40-2? (I agree Kato's presence should not prevent anyone else from making SD40-2s).

Mark

[Erik W]

 Also, since the US based manufacturers know about the glacial release rate of Kato locomotives, I doubt that would slow down US manufacturers from offering something Kato already offers.  Just my $.02.

Erik

Why can't we get a SD40-2? (I agree Kato's presence should not prevent anyone else from making SD40-2s).

Mark

Good question.  Maybe my opinion was really just my $.01 cent worth.  Or . . . SD40-2s are really just a 5th tier locomotive.  ;D

Erik

[bicknell]

So, I think the best we can do is simply pull for the new guys to give us what we want. Why not change our tune and call on the likes of BLMA Models, Fox Valley Models, Bluford Shops, Eastern Seaboard Models and Wheels of Time? At least these guys are willing to listen. They are young, smaller companies and all of them have already offered us products we all wanted and have done a very good job of it. Additionally, they are running their business in a way that makes sense for the modern day Model RR manufacturer, lean and mean. Probably not going to see many canceled products from any of these guys anytime soon.

Chuck is right, but, there is a but.

I won't believe these companies are listening until there is a DCC (so it can be speed matched) cheater box car available from one of them.  I have to believe it's cheaper than a regular loco to develop (doesn't even need headlights, nice square shape so no tricky frame), with the only hard part being decent trucks.  The boards have been wanting such a thing as long as I have been on them, people have made their own, randgust made a kit.  They can rerun once a year or so and keep making money for years off the same developments.

[sundowner]

I wonder if Kato's US offerings will decline as direct competition in the market place becomes greater.  For example Kato has done a standard SD70 in Southern Pacific with 2 road numbers.  Athearn has done two runs of the same SD70 with 6 road numbers.  I would guess Kato may modify any previous plans to run SP SD70s because the demand for them is now smaller.  Also, since the US based manufacturers know about the glacial release rate of Kato locomotives, I doubt that would slow down US manufacturers from offering something Kato already offers.  Just my $.02.

Erik

It comes down to quality. Kato sell out there 70m run while the Athearns 70m sits. Compare the two models and you see why. The Athearn 70m is closer to a Bachman model and cost more than the better built and quality Kato model.

[sundowner]

I have no problem with the way Kato does it business, the have treated my road CSX pretty well. I got a bunch of AC44, SD70m, SD70mac, SD80mac, SD40-2, SD40, foobie CW44-9 and C30-7 they have made for CSX and will be getting the SD70aces and ES44AC from them when they come out this year, I even have a pair of Seaboard RSC-2 that they made.

You must have been in the hobby since pre-history (like me!). What would you say to someone only now entering the hobby ... just model UP, BNSF, ATSF or GN?

Mark

I tell him go to E-bay  ;D

[Rossford Yard]

Not to answer my own question, but here are some Kato releases by date.  The info is a cut and paste from the Amherst Depot site, to give credit where credit is due, but with the actual numbers of locos they still have in stock edited out.

This is all very cute and I'm loving all the N&W releases but make this view the last seven years only and what do we have? You know, the "what have you done for me lately?" thing.

Mark

The SD80Mac and SD70M both got NS releases, with the 70M in the second release in the correct number boards.  I have a dash 9 in NS - well, actually its the undec with decals to represent those dash 9's that went into service before painting in a ghost gray scheme.  What modern loco hasn't been released in NS by Kato? Or are you saying Kato should back date their product line rather than continue to focus mostly on modern six axle power?

I would check further, but the AD site is down right now. BTW, the general attitude of the mfgs not doing enough for you has now extended to other forumers not doing enough research for you?  I mean, your post strikes me as another perfect example of how whatever happens in N scale is unlikely to be good enough for some people.  If you want to complain about your N scale lot in life, then I guess you will find a way to do it, eh?

Side note, at least NW and NS are the easiest to paint loco schemes depending on the exact era you are modeling, so count that as a blessing.

[Erik W]

I wonder if Kato's US offerings will decline as direct competition in the market place becomes greater.  For example Kato has done a standard SD70 in Southern Pacific with 2 road numbers.  Athearn has done two runs of the same SD70 with 6 road numbers.  I would guess Kato may modify any previous plans to run SP SD70s because the demand for them is now smaller.  Also, since the US based manufacturers know about the glacial release rate of Kato locomotives, I doubt that would slow down US manufacturers from offering something Kato already offers.  Just my $.02.

Erik

It comes down to quality. Kato sell out there 70m run while the Athearns 70m sits. Compare the two models and you see why. The Athearn 70m is closer to a Bachman model and cost more than the better built and quality Kato model.

I agree with you 100%.  If given the choice, I'd much prefer Kato's over Athearn's.  But, I am curious if, using the SP SD70 as an example, Athearn producing theirs more often with more road numbers will make Kato think twice about rerunning theirs (or if it won't)?

Erik

[wm3798]

Leo, with all due respect, I don't see a big market for that sort of thing (cheater boxcars).  Maybe because I'm not an N trakker, but even there, I don't see much of a need.  Saturday I ran a 30-car train behind a single Bachmann 2-8-0 with few if any hiccups.  Steam era would be the only practical application for such a beast, and newer steam locomotives are getting better, or can generally be made better.  Also, steam era trains tended to be shorter anyway, so where's the need?

Modern Diesel era modelers can appropriately stick another engine or two up front., and operations-based modelers wouldn't use a box car that has to be more or less in the way all the time.  I think this is an example of the squawking on the web being broad, but not very deep...

Lee