Scale grab iron diameter

[bbussey]

Some of the back-and-forth in the Sovereign thread led me to do some checking.

I took the calipers to painted G26 grabs and found them to be between 11.5 and 12.0, depending upon where you measure to account for the draft.  I also took measurements of current Atlas Model (not Trainman), BLMA, current MTL, Athearn, InterMountain.  They all were between 11.0 and 12.0, with the exception of the Athearn Airslide (because the grabs are free-standing on the ends) and the MTL bay window (9.0 on the sides, but 13.0 on the end walls of the body).  An 11.0 diameter is pretty much what you'll get after putting paint on 8.0 diameter plastic.  Or free-standing wire.  That measures out to almost 2 scale inches in diameter.

I believe prototypical grabs are 5/8" pipe, which is 0.625" and scales down to under .004" in N.  Which would have to be .002" at most to allow for the paint thickness.  In Z, you wouldn't see them at all.

For the time being, ESM will be tooling plastic cars that include etched roofwalks and brake platforms, free standing roof grabs, integrated coupler pockets, uncompromised end detail and intricate body relief (outside and on the inside for gons and wells).  And, we will be designing molded on grab irons for the foreseeable future.  It just isn't cost effective, or physically practical, to consider otherwise.

[wm3798]

I believe grabs are more like 1".  But I don't have a freight car right near by I can check...  5/8" is pretty light.

Lee

[Mark5]

Ya gotta pick and choose what is feasible at any given price point. I was tempted to take the trainman gon and try to get a similar closeup just for fun (but I've been too frickin busy!).

But my take on modeling is that you can zero in on one aspect of just about any model out there, and find "flaws". (Can't see the forest cuz of all those trees!)

The big picture is more important to me.

Mark

[DKS]

This website might be useful for the topic at hand: http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/index.html

In particular: http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRstddims.html

[bbussey]

One inch diameter would be better.  But that's still half of what the thinnest plastic molded-on grabs are today, and a quarter of the free-standing ones.

[bbussey]

This website might be useful for the topic at hand: http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/index.html

In particular: http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRstddims.html

Agh.  Three-quarters of an inch.  That's only slightly better than 5/8 of an inch.  That won't be happening in Z or N anytime soon.

[Mark5]

Three-quarters of an inch ... That won't be happening in Z or N anytime soon.

Aww, come on! That's only 0.0046875" 

Mark

[Chris333]

Down the strret there is a small repair area. I haven't measured anything yet, but:

[DKS]

Three-quarters of an inch ... That won't be happening in Z or N anytime soon.

Aww, come on! That's only 0.0046875"  

Mark

This Z scale camera strap is AWG #43 wire, which is < .003 inches.
 


It would not tolerate handling, but at least scale grabs could conceivably be modeled.

[wcfn100]

  I think BLMA has shown that you can use .007" and still have it hold up to handling.  So if account for .002" of factory paint, you could still get a grab that is 3/4 the size of most current offerings either freestanding or molded.

Does anyone konw what FVM is going to package with their locos?

Jason

[Ed Kapuscinski]

But is 3/4 the size (still much bigger than it should be) worth anyone's blood pressure?

[SkipGear]

If you really want it, Ngineering offers .004" drawn stainless wire for grabs. It's fairly robust for it's size.

http://www.ngineering.com/other_detail_stuff.htm

[bbussey]

The BLMA grabs are stainless which is strong.  But it's more expensive than brass.  And it's not practical in mass market products if you want to keep the price down.  Even with painting and assembly in China, a potential 30+ grab irons per car cannot be inexpensive, and the labor is where you'll get hurt.  Plus, forget about ever assembling in this country and keeping the MSRP within sight.

[wcfn100]

And it's not practical in mass market products if you want to keep the price down.

If you're going to bring up practicality and cost, what would have been the retail price on the G26 without the interior detail? 


Jason

[bbussey]

Don't know.  Never considered it since it wasn't possible to do a one-piece body and have the top of the floor at the correct height and have the car sit at the proper height overall and have integrated coupler pockets without sacrificing most of the end detail.  Plus, Athearn released their mill gon and it wouldn't have made sense to in essence do the G26 in the same established format they did.  Still far far less than looking at individual grab irons though:





I started down that road and turned back.

The next two cars are one-piece bodies.  The well car is a three-piece body with a steel wire brakeline down one side.  If I do another gon, it probably will be designed similarly to the G26.