Timonium Report

[chuck geiger]

No Ed - When I lived in The Lehigh Valley, I went all the time to both - The frost and the thaw.

[Blazeman]

Regarding TrainCat's comments on future Timoniums....

While never a vendor, just a customer, there are some dynamics at work for the show that Howard is either ignoring or not aware of.

If you think about it, there has been a steady decline since the late 80's/early 90's when many times the show covered a couple of the buildings in the complex.

Can't be the parking, since the light rail lot opened in the mid-90's behind the Cow Palace. That makes access/egress so much simpler.

Can't be lack of products, as we all know this is the golden age of N and other scales as well.

We know costs have soared to rent the facility and insurance for liability has gone up and then come down to go up again. I don't know where those premiums stand today.

Perhaps he noticed some slippage the other year and opened the show to the tinplate crowd that he wisely consigned to the one room with the large layouts. That bump seems to have dissapated as well. Having the October show so close to the York Trainmeet doesn't help to bring the tinplaters to the show.

As attendance has noticeably dropped, the price has jumped from $5 to $9. Gas prices while down from last year, still have to make some pause. The drive for me is 98 miles via 95 with the $4 toll in Delaware. Going back to PA via 83 to York and then over to Lancaster and 222 to the Tpk, it's 120 miles and only a $.75 toll versus the higher tolls with Maryland collecting tolls north on 95.  So that's about ten gallons of gas and tolls on top of the admission. Sure, you get a pal or two to ride with you and split that overhead....

I think my distances are average for an attendee. So there's $25 in gas to get there and $1.50 to $10 in tolls.

I don't know the changes in table fees. One vendor told me while they have gotten higher, he still isn't charged for electricity.

It is agreed that perhaps a scaling back of the number of shows may act to benefit vendors by lowering their costs for one less show and make the public's anticipation build over more months. Suggest he can the June show and maybe move the April show from early in the month to the end of the month.

And I wonder if the vendors are deciding whether to work the Superbowl weekend show or the Springfield event which usually is a week later?

He does react to some things. Remember he had the Gettysburg Brass Show one time and never did it again?

It's a cinch his memoirs books aren't going to bring people in.

[Philip H]

Sadly I didn't make it to the show last weekend - my older daughters were in ned of Close Adult Supervision on account of prior behavior.

I wonder - is the show really Howard's baby?  No one else is involved?  That may be the root cause of its slide.  Too many times I've watched the same phenomina - one person aggitates and works tirelessly to get a needed show, forum or conference off the ground.  It runs really well the first few years because the need it is responding to is fresh.  Then, as time and market demands march on, the originator doesn't change things because he/she designed a show for a certain reason, and feels betrayed/loss of control if the show has to evolve.  Eventially the show dies because it doesn't meet the need sof anyone except the originator.

Now, I'll grant you that we do have lots of small to medium show opportunities down here toward DC.  And from a vendor perspective, 3 or 4 Timoniums a year is probably too much, especially if/when sales lag.

[tom mann]

When I went to the show as a kid, I remember more stuff being there to attract families.

[John]

I have been going to the shows since 1996 when I first moved here. You can actually see me in one of the promo pictures.

It's not lack of things to do. There are lots of layouts .

It's not lack of vendors - there are lots of them .. but Kleins dropping out was a big hit ..

It's not the lack of organization - Howard has a partner, and a very good crew to keep things rolling.

It could be the economy

It could be the prices - deals are hit and miss .. if you get there Friday night for setup, you see dealers buying from each other .. buying out the low price guy, then reselling the same thing on Saturday for higher ..I usually do my shopping around 8am on Saturday - before opening time .. so I get to see the best deals .. (there is a benefit to being in a club that displays there)

[conrail98]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the deals, John. I remember going to shows when I was younger and I'd always find a bunch of deals on something that could be useful. The last few I've gone to, not just Timonium, I haven't found too many. Also, shows used to be where local shops used to unload inventory that needed to be get rid of so they could make way for other things in there shops. I see less and less local shops at not just Timonium, but other shows as well. As for this particular show, with the CRHS Convention stuff going on, I couldn't bag out on the wife and leave her with the infant two weekends in a row, so I decided to not go but may go to the one in January or up to Springfield, so it was more of a timing thing for me,

Phil

[C855B]

A thought from the peanut gallery about declining shows in general... have you considered hotel room costs? Vendors typically don't arrive in the morning and set up - they arrive the previous afternoon or evening and stay the night close by, and, if far enough away, might have a hotel stay somewhere the night of show closure. I had my own experience with this at a similar (non-railroad) hobby show - the area hotel operators priced themselves beyond everybody's profit margin, and as a result the show is 1/4 the size it was 10 years ago.

OTOH, the train shows in my area (St. Louis) are growing. Attendance is astounding - shoulder-to-shoulder crowds and 30-minute lines to get in at the national shows (Great Train Expo*, etc.).

[* - I was just startled going to GTE's site, http://www.greattrainexpo.com: the faux crossing flasher in the video loop on their home page belongs to our club.]

[sirenwerks]

I'll through this out and take my lumps, but could it be a decline of the hobby in the region, and the competition? There seem to be more swap meets going on in the area, I'm always hearing about new ones in Virginia I had never heard of. Howard doesn't exactly do a lot of outreach, in terms of bringing in potential new hobbyists. He advertises in all the right places to bring in those already trapped into the market, through mags and local direct sources, but I don't see any real PR going on in terms of snatching newbies from other hobby prospects. There's nothing on the news about the show, or in local papers aside from PSAs.

[Hiroe]

Regarding TrainCat's comments on future Timoniums....
 The drive for me is 98 miles via 95 with the $4 toll in Delaware. Going back to PA via 83 to York and then over to Lancaster and 222 to the Tpk, it's 120 miles and only a $.75 toll versus the higher tolls with Maryland collecting tolls north on 95.  So that's about ten gallons of gas and tolls on top of the admission. Sure, you get a pal or two to ride with you and split that overhead....

I think my distances are average for an attendee. So there's $25 in gas to get there and $1.50 to $10 in tolls.

Blaze:
I can save you $4 on the delaware toll, if you want.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=I-95+S&daddr=E+Chestnut+Hill+Rd%2FChristiana+Pkwy+to:DE-2+W%2FElkton+Rd+to:39.642974,-75.802231+to:I-95+S&geocode=FaX3XAId3ER8-w%3BFf4kXQIddhx8-w%3BFZwxXQIdPq97-w%3B%3BFTHkXAId_kB7-w&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=3&sz=13&via=1,2,3&sll=39.64306,-75.77519&sspn=0.065167,0.110378&ie=UTF8&z=13

[Blazeman]

I can save you $4 on the delaware toll, if you want.

Thanks Hiroe, checked it out and that's quite doable. Been griping about that toll for decades, especially when they jumped from $1 to $1.25. Man did that back up traffic for miles making change. That was pure greed.

Just wish US 1 wasn't such a slow ride through most of MD.

[John]

Thats the way I go around the tolls also .. saves $4 and aggravation .. also goes right by the chrysler plant .. so you can see some NS stuff there .. and just before you get back on (depends on direction) there is a Sheetz, and a Dunkin Donuts

[davefoxx]

That's the way all of us locals get around that toll in Newark, Delaware, and it won't take you much more than an extra five minutes.  If the toll's backed up, you might even save time!

Also, if you come through the area more than once each year, go eastbound over the Route 40 bridge over the Susquehanna River (parallels I-95) and get a commuter decal, which costs the same as one trip, but you get to drive through for free for an entire year!  Then as soon as you go through the toll, take a left on Route 222, and you'll be back on I-95 in a few minutes.  Now that will help ease your traveling costs.

Dave Foxx

[RockGp40]

I like this show, but, I have a hard time shelling out $9 just to walk in the door. $7 was more tolerable, but still pricey. I get nothing but a rubber stamp on my hand before I get in. With the advent of the internet, all of my favorite guys are (and have been) online.

Its a toss up really. Shipping and handling via internet versus time/travel/tax on top of what I may purchase. What I do miss out on by not going to the show are the hands on clinicals.

I didn't know that MB Klein's backed out. I guess with their proximity it is hard to justify, especially since they know that the regular showgoers will make the extra trip.

[Hiroe]

Thats the way I go around the tolls also .. saves $4 and aggravation .. also goes right by the chrysler plant .. so you can see some NS stuff there .. and just before you get back on (depends on direction) there is a Sheetz, and a Dunkin Donuts

Oh, wait... you mean the WAWA? That's not a sheetz there. Blasphemer!

As for the pandemonium show itself, i had wanted to go, but the 2-rail O scale show was in strasburg on saturday. Picked up a gorgeous scratchbuilt PRR scale-test car for $10 from some guy selling his dad's estate.

[Dave Schneider]

You guys on the east coast are hilarious with the little secrets on how to get from here to there. In Anchorage, we have two roads, one goes south and ends 250 miles later in a rather scenic dead end. Its not the end of the earth, but you can see it from there....you betcha!



The other goes north and after a day of driving swings south and leads to the lower 48. No tolls, just moose and frost heaves (kinda like driving at sea).

Best wishes, Dave