Ballasting...beyond white-glue & water....

[sizemore]

So my first order for Smith and Sons ballast became vaporized in the United States Postal system. My second order came through with flying colors! I am impressed that it's a little finer than Woodland Scenics and color is great. I busted out the test track for ballasting, and spooned on my S&S ballast and it was looking great. I mean perfect profile, the tiniest of spot's were filled. I loaded up my Woodland Scenics spray bottle with rubbing alcohol. (I used rubbing alcohol first to prevent clumping, then a second saturation with water) First mistake...that spray bottle sucks. Second the ballast clumps when wet.... I followed up with Matte Medium diluted 40/60 (second mistake) and that dried rather quickly and ballast was still loose. I ended up going the white glue route...but the results this morning were (to me) not satisfying. It looks like wet ballast...

First item is a new spray bottle(s). Second item is a better mix for Matte Medium.

Any other suggestions?

The S.

[davefoxx]

The S.:

I use an old pump spray from a hairspray bottle for my wetting agent (water with a few drops of dishwasher detergent).  I have never tried alcohol, so I can't provide a comparison for you.

For the glue I use an eyedropper (actual a small bottle for contact lens cleaner with an eyedropper applicator).  You're right, that Woodland Scenics sprayer is horrible and spits out drops of liquid rather than atomizing it.  Throw that thing in the trash or, better yet, recycle it.  By the way, the glue that I use is Woodland Scenics' Scenic Cement, which, I understand is merely matte medium.

The D.

[Ryan87]

Use Methyl Hydrate for a wetting agent... Far exceeds anything I've tried in the past.

It also works wonders for removing ballast... 

[central.vermont]

The best thing I have seen used but have not done this yet myself is too use a water based polyurethane with a satin finish to it. A good friend of mine has done his whole layout with it and it is bullet proof!! He can even vacuum his track and not loose any ballast. I will have to get with him and get some directions on application but I believe he wets his ballast the same way with water and a couple of drops of detergent in it. I do know that he uses the poly strait and not diluted in any way.

Jon

[Mark5]

Oddly, I've never had any problems with water/white glue. It's been a few years since I last did it though, and now I can't remember the ratio I used. :

[wm3798]

I don't use a sprayer.  I mix white glue, or sometimes matte medium (whatever's laying around) and mix it with warm water, maybe 25% glue, 65% water, and 10% alcohol.  After spreading the ballast and shaping it, I take the very fancy and expensive Elmer's Glue bottle, and open up the lid to "stun" (as opposed to "kill") then dribble the mixture onto the dry ballast.  The key is to finesse it in to minimize erosion and "floaters"...  This method ensures that your ballast gets a good thorough soaking, which is the key to keeping it down.  It also is more efficient, because you're only applying the mixture where you want it, not over the entire 100' right of way.

Invariably, you'll get some little dribbles and some gullies may form, but it takes about 30 seconds to go back and touch it up once dry. 

Another trick I've found useful is to add a thin bead of full strength white glue along the outer edge of the cork roadbed, then press a little ballast into it.  This helps reduce wash outs when you're applying the mixture, and also keeps the ballast on the shoulder more stable.

Lee

[Ian MacMillan]

I love Smith & Son ballast. The color will get darker when you wet it, and will remain that way. Thus is why PennOhio looks almost white in the bottle and comes out to a much more pleasing grayish color when you are done.

I use a hair sprayer filled with rubbing alcohol, and hold it about 18" off the ballast and soak it. I then use a 50/50 Matte Medium/Water mix to glue the ballast. I find that with real rock products I need to do two applications of the matte/water, the 2nd once everything has dried for 12hrs. I put the matte/water mix in a solo cup and use a baby "snot bulb" to apply it to the track, making sure I am not disturbing the profile or the ballast.

Gives you perfect results every time.

[sizemore]

I love Smith & Son ballast. The color will get darker when you wet it, and will remain that way. Thus is why PennOhio looks almost white in the bottle and comes out to a much more pleasing grayish color when you are done.

I use a hair sprayer filled with rubbing alcohol, and hold it about 18" off the ballast and soak it. I then use a 50/50 Matte Medium/Water mix to glue the ballast. I find that with real rock products I need to do two applications of the matte/water, the 2nd once everything has dried for 12hrs. I put the matte/water mix in a solo cup and use a baby "snot bulb" to apply it to the track, making sure I am not disturbing the profile or the ballast.

Gives you perfect results every time.

Guess I'll have to chalk this upto the crappy spray bottle then, because thats how my ballast looked before I went kablooey with the WS sprayer (GD-POS!!! )

[diezmon]

I have to ask.. why do you guys use a spray bottle with ballast?   It seems like you either have to be close, to not get it everywhere, and risk blowing the ballast away..  or you have to be so far back, to avoid blowing the ballast around, that you end up misting the whole room  LOL

I just use an eye dropper, or one of those ginormous syringes you find at the drug store.  pre-soak the ballast with some washer fluid, then drop/flow on my water/glue mix down the middle of the track. it soaks right in.    I do have to re-apply sometimes, if I haven't soaked it enough the first time.

[John]

I mist my ballast with a fine spray of windex ... the blue stuff .. you don't point the nozzle directly at the ballast, but let the mist float down to it. .. then flood with 50/50 glue / water with a little alcohol

[tom mann]

I use some eyedroppers that I got from MicroMark and good quality matte medium from ScenicExpress.

[Ian MacMillan]

I have to ask.. why do you guys use a spray bottle with ballast?   It seems like you either have to be close, to not get it everywhere, and risk blowing the ballast away..  or you have to be so far back, to avoid blowing the ballast around, that you end up misting the whole room  LOL

I just use an eye dropper, or one of those ginormous syringes you find at the drug store.  pre-soak the ballast with some washer fluid, then drop/flow on my water/glue mix down the middle of the track. it soaks right in.    I do have to re-apply sometimes, if I haven't soaked it enough the first time.

I use droppers to apply the glue. I use the spray bottle only to add the wetting alcohol. With the bottle I have I could have it pretty close to the ballast as it is such a fine mist, but I'm generally doing a large area, so 18" above the layout isnt bad.

[nscalesteve]

an other methode to glue ballast down was showed me by a friend from NTRAK Switzerland some years ago. he is also using a white-glue, water (50/50) and some drops of detergent mixture. to apply the glue mixture he is using an old syringe (and antique glass and metal one w/o the needle).

first he puts the ballast on the track and shapes the roadbed. then he places the mixture just outside on both sides of the roadbed and let the capillary action (is this the right description ?) do the rest. the ballast sucks the mixture in by itself. you then repeat this step till the whole roadbed is wet.

good thing with this methode is you don't have any glue residue on the rails nor on the sleepers or the ballast (and no mist in the whole train- or bedroom). the previous formed roadbed stays in shape as you formed it before applying the mixture and wont get destroyed by drops or sprays and wont get washed away by a too big drop of the mixture. once dried it's rock hard and you can vacuum it with no loss of ballast.

I did try this methode on my oNeTRAK and NTRAK modules back then and it really works...
...applying the glue mixture from the side not from top !

- no gullies
- no wash outs
- no disturbing the profile of the ballast
- no residue on the rails nor sleepers

[rswinnerton]

Steve4... Good idea!

[DKS]

I'm a member of the spray-on-alcohol and apply-white-glue-and-water camp. For a sprayer I use a White Rain hairspray bottle. A buck and change, and it's infinitely better than a four-dollar-plus sprayer from Woodland Scenics or anyone else. The hair sprayer produces a mist fine enough that I can direct it at the ballast from a fairly close range with no ill effects. Once the ballast is well soaked with alcohol, I dribble on white glue and water (50-50) with a small dropper bottle.







Been doing it this way for decades. The only change I made was a few years back switching from liquid detergent (which sometimes left a residue) to alcohol, which seems to work much better anyway.