Layout Thoughts... What if...

[wm3798]

One of the model railroading sins I have to confess to is trying to do too much with the limited space I have.  The discussion of Steve's L&HR design really got me thinking about the limitations of that approach, and the exercise of re-designing my yard plan, then working in the B&O interchange at Cherry Run has got me thinking about simplifying the layout, with two goals in mind...

1)  I want to focus more on the yard operation, and the through freights that make it so much fun, and...
2)  I want to try to be more geographically accurate with my track plan.

Through my volumes of tomes on the WM, I've learned that the heaviest traffic lane was between Cherry Run and Lurgan, with Hagerstown smack dab in the middle.  I'm beginning to churn up ideas about how to more accurately model that, and still keep some of the local operating interest I enjoy.

Presently, I'm stretching myself between Hagerstown and Elkins, with small vignettes along the way to represent the actual lay of the land.  This requires a lot of compression, and may generate more traffic, and traffic types, than the layout can physically handle.  The current focus is also heavy on the local switching, with the through traffic worked in, while I'm beginning to see that it might be better to focus on the through traffic, and work the local stuff in as the side show...

If I do Cherry Run to Lurgan, I've come up with the following pro's and con's...

Pro's:
Easy to stage with balloons at each end, with separate tracks representing the various destinations.
Could include helper service at Williamsport Hill as an interesting operational aspect
Keep the Hagerstown Yard design more or less intact.
Local switching could be included at Hagerstown, Williamsport (I'd bend light a little to keep the power plant receiving coal by rail into the 70's), and Shippensburg
Schedule would include pretty much every train that operated east to west
Scenery would be more coherent.
A total rebuild would help address the lessons learned from the current staging set up.

Con's:
I'd lose all my coal tipples, so there'd be no mine runs.  (I like mine runs)
I'd lose the paper mill, and all the cool west end traffic that served it (pulp racks, chip cars, etc.)
I'd also lose the industrial switching job that the paper mill requires.  I'd have to lay off Brian!
I'd have to tear down what I have and more or less start over!  Yikes!
Linear scenery (no tunnels) would make the route more suitable for a double deck layout, but I still have that whole attic thing to deal with...
With all its drawbacks, I still enjoy running the current layout both alone and with a crew.  It seems to work, so why go through the hassle of a rebuild?

Your thoughts here?

Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Thanks for dropping a big bomb on monday morning! Dammit, I'm trying to be PRODUCTIVE today!

Let me give this some thought.

[wm3798]

It's too rainy to be productive... ;D

Lee

[sirenwerks]

You need more work to do Lee, as you seem to have too much 'leisure' time to think about all this.

Leave it as is, you like it that way, enjoy it. If anything, fix the accessibility issue under the layout. That should keep you busy for a while. But you can still lay off Brian if it means I get seniority on the mine run.

Thinking about your layout makes me hungry for Mexican food. The last thing I need as I'm about to step out the door on my way to a Federal job fair on this rainy Monday morning.

[ljudice]

Your layout is spectacular, don't touch it!

And if you really want all that work, please come up to NJ for a few months to help me get my fiftheenth iteration going here.

[Bob Bufkin]

Couple more Pros:  More varied motive power - WM, Reading, N&W, rarely CNJ.
Still have a ton of loaded coal trains headed East for the steel mills.
Excuse to model more military loads (in out of Letterkenny Army Depot).

Of course, I'm originally from Shippensburg, PA, so it clouds my preferences.

Cons:  You got a terrific layout as is, so unless your growing a little bored, leave it as is, with just some additions that fancy you.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Quit the WM, build the Buffalo Line (beat Dave to it!) hahahaha.

[davefoxx]

Lee,

Personally, I really like the plan that you all came up recently with Hagerstown Yard and the B&O interchange.  I could live with that and be very happy.  My only concern is the aisle spaces in that design.

But, I hate to say this, the reality is that you're going to be gutting much of the current layout (except the area around Luke), if you rebuild the layout as planned anyway.  So, if you're considering a different area or era, perhaps now is the time to start over, especially if you came up with a new plan that was just incredible but could not incorporate any parts of the existing layout.  Also, sometimes, it's just easier to start over and get rid of any problems that were built into the current layout that drive you nuts.  Continually patching in benchwork, wiring, and trackwork becomes a nightmare eventually.

In other words, I'm absolutely no help in attempting to assist you in resolving your issues.  Sorry about that, but it's the lawyer in me that always tries to see both sides of any argument.

Dave Foxx

[Mark5]

Con's:
I'd lose all my coal tipples, so there'd be no mine runs.  (I like mine runs)
I'd lose the paper mill, and all the cool west end traffic that served it (pulp racks, chip cars, etc.)
I'd also lose the industrial switching job that the paper mill requires.  I'd have to lay off Brian!
Your thoughts here?

Lee

I dunno, sometimes I think we can get a little too anal about trying to get absolutely prototypical. My little itsy bitsy layout is loosely based on the N&W's Pokey, which is about 100 miles long. To do this "right" I'd need about 3,300 actual feet of main line trackage in my basement. I'm coming up a little short.

Maybe you should "loosen up" and model the aspects of the WM you love, and be happy.

On the other hand, you must be sure to please your ultimate customer (yourself!).

Mark

[RockGp40]

I'd also lose the industrial switching job that the paper mill requires.  I'd have to lay off Brian!

Fine, I see how it is. No more RS3 rides for you!  >


Geographically correct? Forget it. It would take a 100,000 sq foot warehouse to be that correct. I like your layout in the space that you have. I liked your other idea about increasing the yard along the single main line wall right now. Seems to me that would be a lot easier to accomplish as compared to this undertaking.

Oh, and if Bryan wants the paper mill switcher, that's fine. I'll work the local next time!

[John]

It seems to work, so why go through the hassle of a rebuild?

Your thoughts here?

I do it all the time  ;D

[wm3798]

It's ideal for a spiraling double deck layout with no helix...  Bottom level, the river valley, Cherry Run, McCoys Fy, Spiral up Williamsport Hill to Hagerstown, level off for industries to about NC, then start climbing again toward Shippensburg.  Bob can correct me, but I'm pretty sure there were pushers on the Lurgan line for a good part of the trip.  Staging would be better off as balloon tracks, so eastbounds with Reading traffic can turn around and return from the Reading etc.  Same for Beano traffic appearing from Cherry Run.

Regrettably, my room is totally unsuitable for a double/triple deck. (plus I'm still kind of ambivalent about how I feel about multi decks)

I also realized that I could still haul pulpwood and chips eastbound for Glatfelters...  that business continues to this day, I believe...  Not sure if they still process their own pulp, though.  I know they got chips in those Jumbo cars the WM built there toward the end.

So really the only thing I'd be losing would be the coal mine runs, although I'd still be moving quite a lot of coal over the layout toward the furnaces at Bethlehem and Allentown, and to Port Covington.

Many erasers will be worn down to the nub in this process, I'm sure!

And Brian, you've got seniority, so I really couldn't lay you off, anyway.

Lee

[Bob Bufkin]

Know they used pushers out of Hagersgtown.  Don't remember how far they used them.  Have seen photos of PRR l-1's and PRR diesels being used on WM/Reading trains.  Never have seen a helper in Shippensburg on the WM.  PRR did use helpers Southbound on occasion.

[davefoxx]

Regrettably, my room is totally unsuitable for a double/triple deck.

Oh hell, Lee, that's easy to resolve!  I've got two words for you: shed dormer.  ;D

And Brian, you've got seniority, so I really couldn't lay you off, anyway.

Oh, I know exactly who you have in mind.  I'm the last to join so the first to go, right?  Boo!

DFF

[lock4244]

Lee, I would attempt to model the flavour of the WM and not try to replicate it perfectly. If you eliminate some of the aspects you enjoy like the mine runs and that big old paper mill, you'll regret it. If you are happy with the present layout, keep it. If you find it's time to start over, them by all means do so, but don't do it in a way that you'll find lacking. being accurate is great, but not at the cost of your enjoyment... you wouldn't have an op session without beer now would ya?