Code 55 Blues

[Ryan87]

I guess I want to know why anyone would produce track that couldn't run 99% of the existing products in a marketplace ? I mean, would someone sit in a board room and say, "I know we want to be realisitc looking but to do so, we have to produce a product that XXXX mfg's loco's won't run on -.... ahhh, ummm.. ok; go for it " !

As far as I know only MT Hi pro's & Older LL/Bachman engines won't run on it. (unless we go back to the dark ages)

should they care if they are producing a NRMA compliant product ?

Atlas Code 55 Track is NMRA Compliant, in fact the NMRA standard flange depth is smaller than Atlas' 
Should Atlas be responsible if other Manufacturers choose not to follow the standards?

as for the cost of swaping to lo pros a 900 car fleet of Mt would cost $607 (36 packs of 100 at 16.85 full retail) Not bad considering averaging 15$ a car (assuming some would be more, some would be less)
900 cars would cost $13,500.

[Walkercolt]

Not wanting to stir-up a war, but Atlas had problems with the first prototypes of their code55 track. It was deemed too fragile. Soooo, the Chinese die cutters made the "spikes" more robust, then they bumped MT "pizza cutters" and Arnold wheelsets and some older stuff's flanges. Speculation: The spikes were made taller than intended, but the dies were already changed. Perhaps another stab at the dies would have been instore(but that would be exspensive and delay the introduction of the new product). I really, truely don't believe that Atlas intended what has happened. They're not stupid. A "plastics guy" I know, said maybe they could change the formulation of the plastic in the ties, so that it would shrink more on cooling, thus clearing most flanges. Atlas hasn't done this, for whatever reason. For those of you not old enough to know, originally Micro-Trains(Kadee) wheels were a three piece design with metal wheels(collectors items now). But problems with N-gauge turnouts(mostly Atlas'es) caused MT to re-design their wheels with high flanges to track better. Fast forward to the 21st century; the turnouts have been redesigned and meet NMRA Standards, but many MT buyers prefer the high flanged wheelsets. So here we are.

[Ryan87]

For those of you not old enough to know, originally Micro-Trains(Kadee) wheels were a three piece design with metal wheels(collectors items now).

I must be one not old enough.  I've seen the three piece "Rib backed" wheels with the metal axle & plastic wheels, but have never heard of Kadee Metal wheels. Do they predate the freight cars? Does anyone have any photos?

[3rdrail]

For those of you not old enough to know, originally Micro-Trains(Kadee) wheels were a three piece design with metal wheels(collectors items now).

I must be one not old enough.  I've seen the three piece "Rib backed" wheels with the metal axle & plastic wheels, but have never heard of Kadee Metal wheels. Do they predate the freight cars? Does anyone have any photos?

Look at the ribbed back wheels on this car. They're oxidized metal, and you an even see a polished flange.

[img width= height=]http://lh3.google.com/Gregg.Mahlkov/Rmib9kzEeXI/AAAAAAAABZE/7JZq5_iW2kw/s800/TCX2266.jpg[/img]

[Puddington]

I guess my point has been made - like them or not, the Micro Train "hi pro" (read standard, regular wheel) dosen't run well on the code 55. Hmmmm... I make a new type of track that specifically won't allow the most highly marketed and well known rolling stock in the hobby to run without changing the wheel sets.

Regardless of your opinion of the MT wheel set, it is safe to say they are common..... why would anyone produce a track system that doens't work with them....?

The same question has been asked of the Kato GS 4 and DCC - " did anyone "think" about the potential problem and test for it before rushing to market"... the answer in that case has to be no. I'd like to think the code 55 case is the same and now tooling costs and exposure is the issue - otherwise it's hubris and blantent disregard of the industry and the consumer. I would like to believe that the brass hats in the Atlas ivory tower are better than that.

[bsoplinger]

Did any run of the Atlas Shay run OK on code 55? I know my first run grinds along quite loudly as it bumps from spike head to spike head.

[Chulvis]

Did any run of the Atlas Shay run OK on code 55? I know my first run grinds along quite loudly as it bumps from spike head to spike head.

Which c55 are you asking about? Not sure about Atlas, but they run fine on ME.

[Walkercolt]

Puddington, it's far more about trusting that someone else would do the quality control. I'm sure Atlas engineered it to be compatable, but there was a mess-up somewhere. Atlas isn't dumb. They've "held their ground" on it, saying it meets NMRA specs, when they knew the MT "pizza cutters" don't, but are common as dirt. If I had been in marketing, I would have made sure hi-flange wheels would work, but I wasn't in the meeting. They killed the N-TRAK market for it which would have been HUGE. Hundreds of thousands of modules getting new track on them. We're talking hundreds of REAL miles of flextrack. Little slips can cost lots of sales. The DCC issue with the Kato GS-4 happened after the engines had been built, as I was told, but before the decoders were made. I feel sure Kato will solve the problem. Some people are installing Tsunami decoders with sound quite sucessfully, as well as Richmond Controls Mars Light in the lower headlight, and lighting kits for the cars, etc....

[Robbman]

Atlas has said repeatedly that the orignal track had issues with the spike heads not holding the rail in place to thier standards, so they were thickened, but still kept within NMRA spec... I commend Atlas for refusing to design a product around an exceedingly dated wheelset that has compromised many a freight car.  It's 2008... not 1978...

As for the N-trak market... last time I checked, Atlas C80 is still the standard... many clubs won't even allow Peco C55... so I fail to see how Atlas 'killed the market' there...

[UP_Phill]

Regardless of your opinion of the MT wheel set, it is safe to say they are common..... why would anyone produce a track system that doens't work with them....?

Standards maybe! The Atlas c55 track is well within NMRA standards (which is all we have btw). The MT pizza cutters are dinosaurs from a bygone era and don't meet any standard.  Imho, get rid of them....flame suit on!

[UP_Phill]

Did any run of the Atlas Shay run OK on code 55? I know my first run grinds along quite loudly as it bumps from spike head to spike head.

I have 2 Shay's from the first run and both run fine on Atlas c55.

[DKS]

For those of you not old enough to know, originally Micro-Trains(Kadee) wheels were a three piece design with metal wheels(collectors items now).

I must be one not old enough.  I've seen the three piece "Rib backed" wheels with the metal axle & plastic wheels, but have never heard of Kadee Metal wheels. Do they predate the freight cars? Does anyone have any photos?

Kadee actually went through three wheel designs. The originals were metal rib-backed wheels with plastic axles (circa 70s). Then they had plastic rib-backed wheels with metal axles (circa 80s, IIRC). These were short-lived as they did not hold gauge well, and even when assembled properly were very slightly wide on gauge. They then finally went to one-piece plastic. I have samples of each and will try to post photos at some point.

Similarly their couplers have gone through phases as well. They used to have shorter (in height) knuckles, and the trip pins were round wire with a flattened end that fit into the shank hole; the coupler pocket was held together with a screw. Then they went to a wire that was all the same flattened shape (likely much cheaper to manufacture). Then they increased the overall height of the knuckle, and finally they came up with their "reverse draft" design (which isn't really "reverse draft," but more like "no draft"), and the coupler pocket snapped together.

What I don't get is this (among other things): They blacken the trip pins on their Nn3/Z couplers, but not their N?

[DKS]

Did any run of the Atlas Shay run OK on code 55? I know my first run grinds along quite loudly as it bumps from spike head to spike head.

I have 2 Shay's from the first run and both run fine on Atlas c55.

Ditto.

And here's a real oddball: The Bachmann American 4-4-0 runs on Code 40!

[Sokramiketes]

Regardless of your opinion of the MT wheel set, it is safe to say they are common..... why would anyone produce a track system that doens't work with them....?

It's called Progress.

I mean, I'm still angry that my new computer won't read 5.25" floppy disks... wait, no I'm not.

[bsoplinger]

Did any run of the Atlas Shay run OK on code 55? I know my first run grinds along quite loudly as it bumps from spike head to spike head.

I have 2 Shay's from the first run and both run fine on Atlas c55.

Ditto.

Wonder why my Shay bumps from spike head to spike head then? Is there any other issue I should be looking at on my Shay? I really would like to actually use this loco but with how badly it ran on the Atlas C55 I never even bothered trying to put a decoder in it.