Code 55 Blues

[AlkemScaleModels]

And here's a real oddball: The Bachmann American 4-4-0 runs on Code 40!

I would add, "...when it runs at all."

[Chris333]

The Atlas Shay wheelsets is what Trainworx cut down for me the last time.  Mine is from the first run, but it did hit the spikes on my Atlas c55 turnouts (I use ME flex)

I asked a few times over at Atlas why their shay could run on their track, never got a answer.

[wm3798]

My shay was from the first run, and I don't have that trouble.  But I got the painted/unlettered, which was delayed by several months... Might have fixed the problem...
Lee

[Robbman]

Regardless of your opinion of the MT wheel set, it is safe to say they are common..... why would anyone produce a track system that doens't work with them....?

It's called Progress.

I mean, I'm still angry that my new computer won't read 5.25" floppy disks... wait, no I'm not.

Wait for the Iaiaian remark....

[Chris333]

My (2) shays were undecorated, from the first run. They both hit the spikes. I sold one since I really didn't need it.

When I say "hit" I mean you could feel and hear it as I pushed or ran the loco through the turnout, just like LifeLike stuff.  The shay would still run fine though, so do my FA1's. But I fixed them anyways figuring it would help keep contact at slow speeds.

[Puddington]

Maybe it's progress but for few.... I agree - MT's hi pro's are from a bi gone era, but they are still used; they are standard equipment and until that changes I can't see designing a product that doesn't work with them. It's not like they couldn't have made the required fix and accomodated the wheel sets - they just didn't.

There will be those here that will support the Atlas choice not to accomodate the various needs of wheel sets - they might say that Atlas for forcing progress, moving towards fine scale.... whatever. The truth of the matter from where I sit is that all Atlas did was open itself up to unhappy customers..... MT hasnn't gone " oh poop, Atlas C55 won't run our wheels, we better scrap em and supply lo pros.... indeed, they stopped doing this now didn't they ?

IMO - bad business decision.

[Walkercolt]

Puddington, the market agrees with you. N-TRAK was going to change our standards to Atlas Code 55. But the wheel flange issue stopped it right in it's tracks. BTW, you can use Peco Code 55 on N-TRAK modules, with everyones blessings, as long as you have conversion track to connect to Code 80. N-TRAK is designed to be for EVERYBODY, no matter how old your equiptment, or what cars or wheelsets you run. As long as everyone agrees, we provide one line to run DCC, the other two are DC. Full forward and backwards compatibility. Any coupler you want, as long as you don't have more than three uncouplings, then the offending car must be removed from the train. Atlas shouldn't wrap itself in a cloak of "meets NMRA standards" when for over 25 years their turnouts didn't, and created the need for hi-profile flanges, which was the reason Keith Edwards designed them. Finally, when Peco got into N-scale, N-TRAK "discouraged" the use of Atlas turnouts due to their failures, both with gauge issues and mechnically. We also discourage the use of Shinohara turnouts, due to their unreliability. I personally have run a train for over 16 hours straight at a National Show...no uncouplings, no derailments, no problems...about 80 cars. The layout ran 24/7 for three days and nights. Truth: Low-profile wheels have less drag on curves and let you pull longer trains. Truth: Low-profile wheels are more likely to "String-line"(derail to the inside of a curve) on very long trains than Hi-profile wheelsets. Truth: There are advantages and disavantages to both hi and lo-profile wheelsets. You pays your money and makes your choices.

[Robbman]

Maybe it's progress but for few.... I agree - MT's hi pro's are from a bi gone era, but they are still used; they are standard equipment and until that changes I can't see designing a product that doesn't work with them.

They're only standard equipment becuase MT forces them to be standard.  Try buying MT trucks in bulk for manufacture with LPs.  At one time, they put LPs in the boxes for you (i.e, you got them for free)... then decided to go back to pizza cutters and sell you packs of LPs.  Interesting move, and one that I see as showing that LP demand is not what everybody thinks (i.e, it;'s pretty high, so might as well make a few more bucks off of it).

Also, theres plenty of aftermarket supply of LPs other than MT... watch how fast FVM wheelsets sell out...

As for unhappy customers (which no matter what you do you'll always have)... guess what... they have other options.  If they don't want to use them, then they need to get over it.  All the whining is basically them just being jealous becuase Atlas C55 is better looking or easier to work with than those other options, and they don't want to suck it up and change their wheelsets to be able to use it.



Walkercroft... are you on the N-Trak standards committee?  I've never heard anywhere that N-trak was going to change the track standard to Atlas C55.

I know you can use Peco C55 (I'm an N-trak club member too)... but you said it yourself... 'with everybody's blessing' (everybody being your club members and any other clubs you work with at setups)... i.e, it's NOT the N-Trak standard.  You can even use Atlas C55 if you want... with everybody's blessing.

I'm also curious as to your insight into 'the market'...

[wm3798]

Mike,
This is a mulberry bush we've all been around a few times.  Everything that Atlas has produced in the last 10-15 years (with the possible exception of the Shay) works on the track that Atlas produces.  Everything that Intermountain, Athearn, Walthers, Red Caboose, (Shall I go on?) works with the track that Atlas produces.

Everything that Micro Trains produces requires you to spend extra money... on more Micro Trains products, preferably...  Mmmm.

In the current market place, there are exactly two manufacturers who provide wheel flanges that DO NOT CONFORM to NMRA recommended practices:  Model Power (although even their new locomotives DO) and Micro Trains.

I think you're letting the tail wag the dog here.

I'm even getting a little weary of hearing about how expensive it is to convert older equipment.  You can get a box of 20 pair of Atlas lo-pro's that fit MT trucks for about $12.  That's 60 cents a car.  I had about 100 cars when I started, so I dropped $60.  Whoopdy doo.  Consider I spread that out over a year, it's next to nothing.

That's one of the things I don't understand about all the complaints.  Guys that have accumulated hundreds of freight cars rarely have a layout that can accommodate all of them at once...  Why do they think they have to convert all the wheelsets all at once?  Same for decoders.  If you have a small table top layout, you don't need to spend the money or take the time to put chips in all 60 of your locomotives TONIGHT.  Phase it in, and you'll be surprised how painless it really is.

The fundamental issue is your commitment to improving the appearance and the functionality of your layout.  Once you've established that, there's no expense, and no amount of time that seems excessive.

Lee

[ñiao]

Lee, I'm not sure if your rationalism is in place in such a discussion 

I think it is a bad business from MTL to stick with the pizza cutters. However, in sight to the extra expenses (when you buy LP from MTL) then it is a good one.
Even some of my German stuff runs on Atlas C55....

[Boiler-man]

I have an Atlas Shay from the first run and it runs fine on my Atlas code 55 track, even installed a decoder in it.
Had to power the frogs to get it to crawl through the turn outs, but other than that I am very happy with it .

[Chris333]

It's odd that some say the shay worked fine out of the box. When I first E-mail Trainworx asking if they could do them (bevel gears are part of the wheel face) He replied that they had done many of the shay wheels already and it was no problem.  Why would so many people cut the flanges for nothing?

Just odd is all.

[nwline]

Lee , thanks for the tip on how you filed down your w/s ( tried it and it seemed to work ok , just very time consuming ) .
As far as everyone's comments on why would you lower w/s anyway , pizza cutter's on old Kadee car's and the standard's on N-trak mod's . I read George's post on " Transiton from main to secondary trackwork" and because I model the Milwaukee rd. and M/E code 40 looks perfect for the branchline track that's why went the route of wanting to lower w/s . I too have some old Kadee cars and I gotta tell you ,those Fox Valley w/s are great !
Also as far as N-trak standard's , you've got to admit time has stood still with N-trak !

Dave 

[Walkercolt]

But N-TRAK is still around and has hundreds of thousands of adhearants worldwide. And an original module and a brand new module will still connect and work. The HO guys don't have ANY module standards, and brother does it show! 24" radius curves on show modules! N-TRAK has exposed more people to model roading than any other venue. N-TRAKer's buy more rolling stock, locomotives and track, than any segement of the N-scale market, according to Atlas, Kato, Athearn, and PECO. We're the majority, and the home N-scalers the tiny minority, based on sales. Anybody resently buy four cases of Atlas flex-trak for a yard? I didn't think so. Or 40-odd PECO turnouts? We'll need more turnouts...that's all Horizon had in stock last week. If everything would run on Atlas code 55, N-TRAK would allow it, but it won't, and we try not to exclude anybody. Come to Louisville and see the world's largest N-scale layout in operation. More than an actual mile in length. Estimated to take a passenger train about 2 hours to go around it, running at prototypical speed. The head-end won't be in one town while the tail-end's in another here. Big layouts, little trains, a great combination.

[wm3798]

No question that N trak has been good for the hobby, and for the scale in general.  But at the end of the day, unless you have a home layout that you can plug your module into, it's not much use to someone who wants to run trains more than three or four times a year.

For the operator, it's of little or no use, since you can't predictably know what destinations are available, or who's bringing what equipment.  A scale mile or more of track is impressive, but it's really just a big roundy roundy with a lot high volume of traffic.

And yes, there are standards, but they were written back when the best you could hope for was pizza cutter wheels and Trix drives, and anything less than code 80 was a high priced boutique item.  It also has a certain "lowest common denominator" factor, geared more toward crowd pleasing (lots of trains running and cutesy scenes) than actual model railroading.  That's not to say there aren't exceptions, nor to say that the cutesy scenes aren't brilliantly executed.  But that's my general impression of N trak, and I suspect the impression held by many others here.
Lee