N scale Storage Case - Good Idea, Bad Idea or No Idea?

[chicken45]

Oh COME ON! Like I was the only one who looked at that pile of foam and thought, "Hey! It's Tetris!"

[VonRyan]

Oh COME ON! Like I was the only one who looked at that pile of foam and thought, "Hey! It's Tetris!"

 

Your not the only one. 

[wcfn100]

Okay, so I got some numbers from my Dad from when he had this stuff made.

Without revealing those (since I don't know the 10 year price adjustment), I'd like to get some feed back based on what all you will be getting.

First of all, here's the pouch of foam pieces (the bottom is easier to see).  No matter what I do, these will be sold as you see them here and not broken up.  I will certainly look at redesigning the die if it ever wears out.



There are 38 individual pieces broken down like this:

18 'T's
12 'L'
4 little 'i'
4 big 'l's.

There are some pieces that can be made from other ones as well like a 'T' can be a 'L' + a little 'i' or a big 'l' can make an 'L'.

In a 40'/50' tray shown here:


there are -

20 'L's
16 'T's
4 'i's
0 'l's

Even with a lot of creativity, there is not enough in one pouch to do this tray (two 'L's shy I think).  But you would only need a couple extra pieces.   Any smaller cars would obviously need more as well.

So in the bankers box example, you can hold 8 trays for approx. 200 cars.  I would probably include 10 pouches without knowing any better at this time.

The big questions are:

If you supplied the bankers box, what would you pay for the trays and 10 pouches to hold approx/ 200 cars?

Or, what would you pay per pouch to hold approx. 23 cars on your own tray?  The larger the tray the better the car count will be per pouch.


Thanks,

Jason

[Denver Road Doug]

The (now defunct) trainboxesplus system came out to about 29 cents per car at a density of 135 cars per box.

200 * .29 = $58 - Bankers Box $2 - Trays $5(?) = $51.  So without any other considerations the number *could* be a little over $5 per bag.   But given that you have to (get to?) "roll your own", I'd say the number immeditely drops to $3 per bag, if not less...but maybe I'm wrong...that's just my take on it.   I would hope you're still making a killing off of them at that point, but I really have no idea.

I'm still intrigued by the concept.  I know how many times I've reshuffled my cars within my boxes so I see that being a challenge.   I do think your form factor is better, easier to carry, (a big plus, especially through doors) easier to replace boxes, etc.   And I do agree with your point about holding a tray with one hand and placing cars with the other.   Compelling points all.

BTW, the above was based on comparison to the "competition"....which maybe you think your system is significantly better than, and that's fine.  I just wanted to provide some perspective.   "What I would pay" was what I paid for those trainboxesplus boxes so that's as equivalent as it gets, from my point-of-view.

[kalbert]

I would imagine $3/bag is going to be a healthy loss.

You're kinda going about pricing it wrong... Not to many focus groups come right out and ask "So how much would you pay for something like this?" Turns people off.

What you need to do is figure out your cost to produce them (and to continue to produce more), including cost of the material, packaging, marketing, your time, anyone else's time, every thing down to the electricity the lights in the basement will use for the extra 2 hours they're on per week while you're down there boxing up orders. Don't forget to include depreciation on the equipment, etc, as you don't want to be stuck in a spot some day where after selling at cost for 5 years you suddenly need to replace an expensive piece of equipment and have not the cash to do so. You need an accurate idea of what it really costs to make them so you don't inadvertently loose even though the books say you should be winning.

Next you need to figure out what, if any, profit you'd like to make on top of the operating costs. Typically this is between 10 and 30 percent over your cost. This is your fun money, you can do with as you like as your company should be able to operate daily as long as the costs are covered. This is the area where prices can be adjusted to compensate for fluctuation in the market, marketing strategy, etc. without actually loosing money on each sale. When you cut prices, this is where the cuts are, when you set MSRP this is where the number comes from.

The cost + profit will determine the numbers you can propose a focus group type discussion on price and test the waters. Toss out some real numbers, we don't know if that's got a 10% profit or a 30% built in. Don't believe what you see on a forum either. Take a couple boxes to a few local swap meets, price them at your ideal mark and take best offers. People will spout all day long on the Internet that they wouldn't pay more than $5 for a pallet of them, but would gladly buy a semi load for that price when in reality they likely wouldn't buy any at any price. Guys at a swap meet will low ball you, but they will actually buy some, and their low ball offers will let you know if your MSRP is in the ball park or not.

Personally, I think some kind of storage mechanism to go inside bankers boxes or file cabinets is outstanding. It's a standard form factor for storage with a multitude of products designed around it already, and pretty much no other model railroad storage solution follows any standard let alone one that is common and sensible. If you can get the total cost for the customer including the bankers box in the ball park of the Axian cases I'd think you'll have a slam dunk.

[wcfn100]

You're kinda going about pricing it wrong... Not to many focus groups come right out and ask "So how much would you pay for something like this?" Turns people off.

This isn't like a cold call or anything.  I've been a member here almost 8 years as have many others and know that when a solid opinion is needed or wanted, someone will produce one without being 'put off' by the question.

The bottom line is that I have six boxes full of these things in my garage and would like to get them out without just tossing them.  But I have to have some information before I put more time or money into it.

Jason

[wcfn100]

The (now defunct) trainboxesplus system came out to about 29 cents per car at a density of 135 cars per box.

200 * .29 = $58 - Bankers Box $2 - Trays $5(?) = $51.  So without any other considerations the number *could* be a little over $5 per bag.   But given that you have to (get to?) "roll your own", I'd say the number immeditely drops to $3 per bag, if not less...but maybe I'm wrong...that's just my take on it.   I would hope you're still making a killing off of them at that point, but I really have no idea.

That's great info Doug, thanks.

Some questions...

How many years ago would you put that cost analysis?
Did that include everything needed i.e.- just pack and carry?


The price per pouch ended up at $1.56 plus tax and then there's the price of the die.  If that seems high, the density of the foam and the adhesive backing brought the cost up a lot.

Whenever I get the chance I'm going to try and find someone local that could do this type of work and get an updated estimate.  That will probably determine the fate of all of this.

Jason

 

[kalbert]

Sorry.... I didn't mean that to be as standoffish and knowitallish as it turned out. I guess I don't know what's going on, or at least not enough about it. As with anything else on the Internet... take business advice found on a message board with a block of salt! It's too good of idea to fall victim to bad execution though, so whatever you do be careful!

[wcfn100]

Sorry.... I didn't mean that to be as standoffish and knowitallish as it turned out. I guess I don't know what's going on, or at least not enough about it. As with anything else on the Internet... take business advice found on a message board with a block of salt! It's too good of idea to fall victim to bad execution though, so whatever you do be careful!

No apology needed.  I agree with much of what you said.  It's just that I'm not really trying to get into a business venture here.  I really like this case, but have more stuff than I could ever use.  I'm just putting the feelers out and if there's any interest, we'll see what we can do to get everyone what they want at a fair price.

I can't find my Old Logo unfortunately, but I can still make the name 'official'.

TraiNsporter © 

Jason

[Sokramiketes]

No apology needed.  I agree with much of what you said.  It's just that I'm not really trying to get into a business venture here.  I really like this case, but have more stuff than I could ever use.  I'm just putting the feelers out and if there's any interest, we'll see what we can do to get everyone what they want at a fair price.

I can't find my Old Logo unfortunately, but I can still make the name 'official'.

TraiNsporter © 

Jason

WHOA, slow down.  Did you patent this invention in 56 other countries yet? 

[wcfn100]

WHOA, slow down.  Did you patent this invention in 56 other countries yet?

Maybe LegalZoom can hook me up.  But even then I gotta worry about Macau, China. 

 

Jason

[Denver Road Doug]

How many years ago would you put that cost analysis?
Did that include everything needed i.e.- just pack and carry?

That cost analysis was good as of the day trainboxesplus closed their doors which was sometime last year.   Yes, it includes everything, ready to pack and carry.

As an aside, they closed their doors not because they weren't making money, but they simply just didn't want to do it anymore.   I doubt it would be a huge barrier for anyone with the right foam and carboard tools to produce a very close copy, but for now they're not being made.

I can't find my Old Logo unfortunately, but I can still make the name 'official'.

TraiNsporter © 

I like "Train-tris" better.