N scale Storage Case - Good Idea, Bad Idea or No Idea?

[Denver Road Doug]

An interesting idea. For me it doesn't have enough car-per tray density for me to abandon my current method.

This.

If I was starting from scratch, I would definitely consider it.   I do like the concept of the "T's" and how they probably protect the couplers a little better than a straight linear storage does. (unless you buffer them)   And, I think the system would sell pretty good, especially since TrainboxesPlus is no longer, and at least two of the remaining competitors that sell in this area don't put out as good of a product, IMHO.

But density wise, I am reminded of the similarly sized High Iron boxes and they seemed to be in "no man's land"...not nearly the capacity of something like the TrainboxesPlus boxes, nor the "TLC-factor" of something like the Deluxe Innovations unitpak boxes.  (plus, the type of foam used in the H.I. boxes that I had also tended to damage the decoration on cars, but I digress)   The density for yours is probably better/decent so it may not be an issue.

I think there are subtle things about each system that give them an advantage.   Yours would be the ability to use standard, readily available boxes, more customizable "cradling", and better protection for the couplers.  I really like the TrainboxesPlus boxes that I use, but I have learned some things about them over the years, too.   One is the aforementioned "buffer foam" to protect some cars and couplers.   Two is don't cram cars too close together.   Three is "I have enough friggin' freight cars, stop buying!"   

[wcfn100]

In regards to capacity or density, I have one of those longer foam lined cases and I can actually get one more car in my design from the same area.

Here's your standard 40'/50' mix tray with cars.



Here's the same cars in the foam lined tray spaced about as comfortable as I would space them between the couplers.



Here's an overlay with the extra car.



When you get into tank cars and flat cars the space becomes much more optimized and the support is much better.


Jason

[wcfn100]

Here's a test tray for 33' hoppers.



The way it is it will hold 30 hoppers with leftover space at the bottom and left side of the tray.

Here's the foam lined tray.



And the overlay.



You can see the hopper in the foam box extend beyond the top tray.

I think with a better pattern you could get more hoppers on there but even as is, you could make space for flat cars or maybe even smaller tank cars.

Jason

[Frank Amato]

I think I have my answer but let me back up one time to clarify a couple things.

This is an idea for a kit to make your own customizable storage trays to fit into a standard Bankers Box.

What you would get is 5-6 masonite (or similar) trays with the hand holes cut out and lined with a thin foam sheet.  You would also get several bags of the foam pieces.

I personally love this idea; it would allow me to replace a mish-mash of boxes filled with jewel cases.

  Frank

[Denver Road Doug]

In regards to capacity or density, I have one of those longer foam lined cases and I can actually get one more car in my design from the same area.

Here's your standard 40'/50' mix tray with cars.

I guess my devil's advocate to that is...look at all the space to the right...    Yeah, I get it....fits in banker box.   But still you're adding more stacking/unstacking per tray versus a wider box/channel foam solution.

You know, actually the other thing from looking at that is...I might see a market for *replacing* a tray or two in the long boxes.   But it goes back to...if I didn't already have something.   Plus I think some irregular cars would present a challenge.   Tanks, flats, intermodal, etc.    But for my coal fleet, autoracks, boxcars, etc. it would be nice.

The other side of the coin is...I wish I just had a nice big layout to park the cars on.   

[eja]

Two ideas for covering the Masonite:

1.  Rubberized shelf  lining material available at Target

2.  Rubberized tool drawer liner from Home Depot.


I believe both are wide enough for your application and can be cut to length as desired.


eja

[wcfn100]

Two ideas for covering the Masonite:

1.  Rubberized shelf  lining material available at Target

2.  Rubberized tool drawer liner from Home Depot.


I believe both are wide enough for your application and can be cut to length as desired.


eja

You need to be very careful using some of those liners because some will leave marks on the paint finish of the cars.

I guess my devil's advocate to that is...look at all the space to the right...    Yeah, I get it....fits in banker box.   But still you're adding more stacking/unstacking per tray versus a wider box/channel foam solution.

The longer boxes also have their downsides too.  Anyone who uses them has their own experiences and examples.

One thing I like about the smaller trays is that I can hold it in one hand and use the other hand to unload/load cars.  Makes for very fast work.  It can also much faster to find something.

Like it's been mentioned, every solution has it's pluses and minuses. 

One other reason this idea came around was because I was using Bankers Boxes as pedestals for a former show layout.  The idea was that I could pack cars in one box and the power pack and locomotives in the other.



edit: On the subject of capacity, I guess I felt 150 cars was enough to take to weekend show.  Do you guys generally use more than that over two days?

Jason

[peteski]

Two ideas for covering the Masonite:

1.  Rubberized shelf  lining material available at Target
2.  Rubberized tool drawer liner from Home Depot.
I believe both are wide enough for your application and can be cut to length as desired.
eja

I haven't looked at the tool drawer material but I would recommend against the shelf liner, if it is the soft spongy type.  The stuff can leach plasticizer, which can soften and melt plastic car bodies. It takes some time for this to happen, but the last thing you want to see after storing your cars for a year or two is that the car sides have the shelf liner's texture permanently imprinted in them!

[DKS]

It occurs to me that you don't need to cover the entire sheet of Masonite to protect the cars. I'd be tempted to get some self-adhesive hard felt sheets (which you can get at the big box stores in the rubber foot/bumper section) and just place a rectangle of the felt at each end of the opening for the car, such that it's oriented vertically with respect to the car (see hacked image below). This should provide safe support and actually leave most of the car untouched on either side.



Irregularly shaped cars, such as tankers, might pose some challenges in the placement of the foam blocks as well as the felt pads. Flatcars with delicate brakewheels on the ends might be an even bigger challenge.

EDIT: I had not noticed the image on page 1 of this thread showing the very same technique. Oh, well.

[Hyperion]

Personally, I think it's an awesome idea.  And if the price was right, I'd be in for some for sure.

A couple questions...

1>  The large foam piece you're looking for.... are you thinking it would go 'under' the cars as shown, or would it go under the piece of masonite that you're stacking on 'top' of these cars?  Because I would think it'd be difficult to put a piece under these, because then the foam segmentation pieces would have to stick to the foam, and they wouldn't stick well at all I wouldn't think.  However, if they're resting right on masonite, that may pose some other issues, but I don't think it'd be terrible.  And it's impossible to 'stick' to masonite (I've had issues with locos/cars detail bits 'grabbing' onto the foam of other boxes when removed)

2>  If the foam sheet is just to go under the masonite stacked on top:  if the "L"-shaped pieces were wider than an N-scale car, would you really need it?  The masonite sheet would just rest on all the segmentation pieces, and the cars are so light and that foam so dense, that it'd never be sufficient the press down onto the cars.  The cars would never touch the piece of masonite unless they were flipped over -- which would be another problem altogether.

3>  Can you offer the little "L"-shaped segments in different sizes?  That would allow them to also work for flats and baretables.  Right now they'd just flop around in the empty space because they're narrower than your foam pieces.  This is a problem in almost all the existing boxes on the market too, as not many come with foam inserts.  Your system is infinitely adjustable for any car of any size, rather than inevitably having some cars flop around too lose and others squeezing in too tight.  Or, would the solution be to simply load them 'flat'-wise (i.e. wheels down on the masonite).  No more space, no need for different width pieces.

[pwnj]

What about using extruded foam, maybe 1/2 inch stuff?  This would be thicker than the masonite, but lighter (i.e.- cheaper for you to ship) and easy to cut to size, plus it doubles as the top foam and bottom foam in the trays.

[DKS]

What about using extruded foam, maybe 1/2 inch stuff?  This would be thicker than the masonite, but lighter (i.e.- cheaper for you to ship) and easy to cut to size, plus it doubles as the top foam and bottom foam in the trays.

The 1/2-inch extruded foam is pretty wimpy--it might not provide adequate support--and thicker foam would start wasting space. However, quarter-inch Foamcore or (even better) Gatorfoam would be rigid enough, lighter weight and more easily cut than Masonite.

[wcfn100]

It occurs to me that you don't need to cover the entire sheet of Masonite to protect the cars. I'd be tempted to get some self-adhesive hard felt sheets (which you can get at the big box stores in the rubber foot/bumper section) and just place a rectangle of the felt at each end of the opening for the car, such that it's oriented vertically with respect to the car (see hacked image below). This should provide safe support and actually leave most of the car untouched on either side.

The issue with that is that the foam is only 1" thick.  IIRC that was the thickest I could cut with the die as it was made.  As you go down the stack you do get some compression of the foam due to the weight to the point where there could be concern at the bottom most tray.  If you put strips between the 'T's you cut down on the vertical space as opposed to covering the whole tray and keeping the full height of the 'T's.

I don't remember what sort of testing I did or how serious of an issue this was but I know it was an issue to some extent.  I should probably look at it again and really see how bad it is. I could always go with some sort of stand off, but would prefer not to add more to a fairly simple setup.

Jason

[pwnj]

Yes, even better with the Gatorboard.  And as for a stand-off, if you cut the grab hole right, the material could fold twice (out the hole, and in to make it rigid) so it can double as the stand-off.

[wcfn100]

Personally, I think it's an awesome idea.  And if the price was right, I'd be in for some for sure.

A couple questions...

1>  The large foam piece you're looking for.... are you thinking it would go 'under' the cars as shown, or would it go under the piece of masonite that you're stacking on 'top' of these cars?

Between the tray (masonite) and the foam 'T's for reasons just previously mentioned.

2>  If the foam sheet is just to go under the masonite stacked on top:  if the "L"-shaped pieces were wider than an N-scale car, would you really need it?  The masonite sheet would just rest on all the segmentation pieces, and the cars are so light and that foam so dense, that it'd never be sufficient the press down onto the cars.  The cars would never touch the piece of masonite unless they were flipped over -- which would be another problem altogether.

I think that's covered in the above as well.

3>  Can you offer the little "L"-shaped segments in different sizes?  That would allow them to also work for flats and baretables.  Right now they'd just flop around in the empty space because they're narrower than your foam pieces.

The 'T's can be cut to whatever size you want.  The spaces on 33' hopper tray are not as tall as the spaces on the box car tray which is why there's left over space.  The 'T's work perfect for tank cars and flat cars because they can be trimmed to fit.  I'll see if I have any examples somewhere.

It's actually a fun puzzle when making a tray.  If I go forward with this, I'll look forward to how creative people can be with it.

Jason