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So, I've been going through some of my rolling stock and the like trying to get it a bit more accurate for where+when I'm planning to model, and had a few questions to ask in relation to TOFC+COFC traffic to get it a bit more precise.1) After the 45' long trailer became legal nationwide in 1980, I've been a bit unclear in going through both photos and videos for what kind of percentage you might've had of 40' trailers still being used in TOFC by the mid-1980s considering the amount that were extended into 45' long trailers alongside changes to the flatcars.2) On eastern railroads like Conrail, were the 57' flats at all used for TOFC within the early-mid 80s? Since from what I understand, railroads in the west did use them a decent chunk, but a bit more unclear for railroads like Conrail and such.3) With the rise of container traffic, were the 85' flatcars used at all here, or was it just effectively the 89' flatcars that were used here for COFC traffic?I've just been trying to figure out those three bigger questions out, and it's been a bit of a devil of a time trying to puzzle out those last couple of details there.
1.) Regarding Conrail's 40' versus 45' trailers, in my August 1980 OIER, Conrail had 4951 40' x 96" Trailvans that they purchased new during the late 1970's. In my June 1985 OIER, Conrail had 2841 40' x 96" Trailvans, 1990 45' x 96" Trailvans (40' stretched to 45') and 650 45' x 102" Trailvans (built new in the early 1980's). That's almost a 50/50 mix of 40' versus 45' trailers. FWIW, Stanley Crane was a big fan of intermodal, and Conrail was a leader in that service in the 1980's before the double stack revolution.2.) From my own personal recollection, Conrail in the mid 1980's mainly used 89' flatcars for TOFC and COFC. The 45' vans gave new life to the 50' TT F30G flatcars for hauling a single 45' trailer, so you would see them on occasion. I recall seeing the 50' Southern boxcar to TOFC conversions, TT front runners (single axle TOFC cars) and some CNW 50' TOFC cars. I do not really recall the ATSF 57' cars. I would have remembered them since MTL produced them in N scale.3.) For shipping containers, I recall mainly seeing containers on chassis mixed in with the regular TOFC equipment on TV trains and MAIL trains. Although as the 1980's progressed, you would see more widespread use of regular COFC, especially by the end of the decade. Most of the COFC I recall from the mid 1980's was mixed in merchandise trains. If containers were on 85' flatcars, I did not notice. I would have to say it was probable since an 85' car would be a little lighter than an 89' car. I hope this helps.Jeff
So, I've been going through some of my rolling stock and the like trying to get it a bit more accurate for where+when I'm planning to model, and had a few questions to ask in relation to TOFC+COFC traffic to get it a bit more precise.
2) On eastern railroads like Conrail, were the 57' flats at all used for TOFC within the early-mid 80s? Since from what I understand, railroads in the west did use them a decent chunk, but a bit more unclear for railroads like Conrail and such.
3) With the rise of container traffic, were the 85' flatcars used at all here, or was it just effectively the 89' flatcars that were used here for COFC traffic?
...3) With the rise of container traffic, were the 85' flatcars used at all here, or was it just effectively the 89' flatcars that were used here for COFC traffic?...
Heading into the 80s, intermodal traffic was generally domestic loads in trailers and international traffic in containers. Real change in this space was the introduction of double stack well cars in 1984 and was driven by the steamship companies over the next few years (APL and Sealand leading the way) but what I really mean is, intermodal traffic in this period is really "lane" dependent - particular shipping companies on specific railroads at certain times (APL was generally UP/CNW/CR or SP/NS and Sealand was BN/NYSW/CR or SP/CSX as examples in the mid-80s onwards) and this really influenced what you'd see on your route in the 80s/90s before domestic containers changed the landscape again. It's through this lens I'd frame this discussion - I wouldn't expect long strings of APL 40' containers on 89' COFC flats if their was already an APL double stack train on this route in this time etc.We can narrow it down further if there's something particular you're trying to model. Jeff's response above is on the money for Conrail and as a general trend.Whilst maybe not the 57' ATSF ones that MTL makes, there's some pretty decent documented evidence that the other similar conversions (NS, CNW) appeared east of Chicago, as did the Front Runners. The NS versions sure went everywhere.This photo is 1991, but I'd bet money on this occurring during the 80s as well:https://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cnw780748&o=cnwFront Runners in the 80s:https://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttux121179akg.jpghttps://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttux121261amh.jpghttps://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttux145469&o=ttxhttps://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttux121225gea.jpghttps://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttux121187akg.jpgTrailer Train, railroads and shippers were all fairly quick to make the move to 45' trailers and TT already had large numbers of 45'/40' equipped 89' flats by 1983, so as you move past that date you're far more "likely" to see a Trailer Train 85' flat in other services (JTTX, MTTX, etc in pole service or junk loads, steel loads etc) than in intermodal service. The Twin 45' conversions started almost immediately.There are obviously exceptions, as this one made it to 1992:https://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx102764&o=ttxHowever for the 80s, what you would still see in the Trailer Train fleet are the various VTTX 80-85' skeleton COFC flats (Trainworx) and the the ATTX/CTTX/VTTX 60' COFC flats (JTC)VTTX Skeletonshttps://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/vttx300285amh.jpghttps://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=41868https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=4844560' Flatshttps://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=48440Regular 89' Flathttps://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=120064Now bear in mind, the railroads didn't adapt as fast as TT with their own fleets, so in the 80s you'd still see expect to see their own 80'-85' flats in COFC service - both CN and CP flats would start to appear in the US in this time as well as the usual UP/SP/ATSF/BN/FEC/KCS/WP examples. Here's a DRGW example before it went to MOW service:https://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=drgw21512&o=drgw And just cause they came up while I was looking for examples, here's some TOFC photos from the time, all east of Chicago.https://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttx154175adk.jpghttps://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttax982491m.jpghttps://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttx474893kga.jpgUPS still ran a heap of 40' drop frame trailer right up to the 90s, so this traffic source still around to make use of a 40' deck slot....You can spend a day looking at FallenFlags for 80s era photos:https://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttx-im.htmhttps://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttx.htmHope this helps.
Notwithstanding the older stragglers that James noted, the trend from the late 70s to mid eighties was away from new dedicated COFC flats. So new or rebuilt 89' flats that had container pedastals typically also had hitches for TOFC, as with the TTAX series, TTWX series, many railroad owned 89's and APLs 89' 'Linertrain' cars (a good model for Conrail in the five years pre-stacktrains). I'm pretty sure by the 80s Trailer Train had no COFC-only 89' flats in service. IOW for mid-eighties pre-stacktrain COFC you'd have mostly 89s with your occasional older 85' or VTTX ex-flexivan. As already mentioned, things changed quickly with stacktrains. The VTTX disappeared, as did 89' flat configurations like TTAX that could only handle 40ft trailers. The latter got rebuilt into configurations like RTTX that could handle 'Twin 45' trailer configurations because there was no longer much need for 40ft containers on chassis.
So new or rebuilt 89' flats that had container pedastals typically also had hitches for TOFC, as with the TTAX series, TTWX series, many railroad owned 89's and APLs 89' 'Linertrain' cars (a good model for Conrail in the five years pre-stacktrains).
Sort of related question to this thread, I couldn't find much information on the APLX APL Linertrain service online, were these cars used in some sort of captive service or on what routes were used before APL stack service became common? Did they carry APL trailers mostly or 40' containers on chassis?
In terms of the specifics, I was kind of going for a facsimile of the CR Boston Line no later than '85ish? So I was aiming to put together a planned composition of equipment that could be used for a TV train circa then alongside just a better clarification of equipment and such there.
This site says APL began its LinerTrain service in 1979:<http://www.seaportspr.com/viewtechnews.cgi?newsletter_id=49&article_id=2200>1979: APL LinerTrain. The winter of 1977-78 was particularly harsh, with blizzards that shut down large segments of the U.S. road and rail transportation system. APL's ultimate response was to increase its ranks of railroad operations people and introduce the LinerTrain, which involved time-chartering trains from the railroads in order to control the rail portion of the intermodal container move. The LinerTrain, the first dedicated train service operated by an ocean-shipping company, integrated ocean and land container moves, with one carrier - APL - now directing both parts of the transport. Consequently, container transportation became more reliable, predictable and convenient than it had been previously. Train and vessel schedules were coordinated, resulting in dramatic reductions in transit times for international shipments. Today LinerTrain is an APL trademark symbolizing the company's intermodal leadership throughout the age of containerizationPerhaps the began ops with leased equipment as the 1/80 ORER does not list APLX as a mark.-- Jim Eager <jeager@...>Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Just stumbled upon this cool shot of a 40ft APL can on chassis being loaded on one of the short-lived 89ft APL Linertrain flats:<http://www.apl.com/history/art/innovate/rail/piggy.jpg>-- Jim Eager <jeager@...>Toronto, Ontario, CanadaPhoto looks like UP's East LA yard....
Per my 7-82 ORER, series is APLX 17001-17080 (80 cars). Home points of Los Angeles and South Kearney NJ.Christine Keller
To continue the APLX cars forward using Eric Neubauer's 12/08 car-of-the-month on the ACF IPD pig flats:APLX 17051-17080 > IRRC 17051-17080 in 1982 > BVRY 17051-17080 (24 cars) in 1988 > possibly to SSIX 89100-89199 (50 cars) in 1988 > NYCH 89100-89199 in 1989 > HS 89100-89199 in 1990 > SLR 89100-89199 in 2000APLX 17001-17050 > SP 900480=900579 in 1983 > MNA 900480=900579 in 1995 > ? in 2004Jim Eager <jeager@...>Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Topic: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions (Read 916 times)
