Atlas FA2 w/ Digitrax decoder DN167n18 not responding

[OldEastRR]

Got all the info right this time. The Digitrax decoder seemed to work fine at first, but when I tried to consist it with a LokSound decoder it wouldn't. Since then I've tried (NCE DCC) System recovery, reprogramming CV 16 to 0, CV 8 to 8, etc, but no response except from the light. It sometimes actually turns off and on on demand, but other times just blinks every couple of seconds. When on PGM Trk mode the NCE unit can read the decoder mfgr # and the decoder model, but "can't read" CV16. Not even sure if its at address 3 or the one I tried to program into it.
Loco and decoder long past warranty.

[Lackawannae8]

sounds like the decoder popped due to the side saddle speaker pickups shortiing to the frame. poor design and I belive the next run is getting reworked. terrible terrible design

[peteski]

I don't know why Lackawanae8 mentoned speaker connections - DN167n18 is not a sound decoder. I also  don't see Atlas FA2 listed on the spookshow's site  - is this a brand new loco he didn't write up yet?  I assume that it is since it takes decoders with Next18 connector.

EDIT: looks like  I missed the FA2 writeup on spookshow's site: https://spookshow.net/loco/llalcof.html but I still don't see how the speaker connections could mess up a non-sound decoder on which some CVs can be read.




Aside the fact that Digitrax decoders to me are not worth buying, do you think the decoder is locked? How about reading CV15? Did the decoder come installed from the factory, or you installed brand new decoder in it yourself?  New decoder should not be locked.

System recovery is described  in the manual as:
Press 1 to enter Recovery mode. This will reprogram NCE decoders (and most others) to their original factory values. It will also set addresses, motor control CVs and Function Mapping CVs to a useful state so that you can get control of a decoder.
As each CV is programmed the CV number is displayed.

I never actually used that feature.  What happens? Are the CV values displayed as per the manual, or it displays failure?

If the decoder can identify the manufacturer and version, it successfully reads CV7 and CV8. Can you read those directly In the programming track mode?

Assuming that it is not locked, can you read any other CVs?  Your writeup was not very clear about that.  Can you read CV1, 29, or 19?

[OldEastRR]

OK ... the NCE controller can't read CV16. However I will try CV 15. the Recovery Pgm setting also doesn't seem to affect the decoder. Sometimes, I have control of the headlight -- can turn it on or off. Other times (put back on track again) I don't. Yes, I'm aware of DT's rather dubious reputation but nobody else makes a non-sound decoder for the Atlas FA.
Also, there can't be a short to the speaker as I removed it and one of the contacts. Maybe I should remove the other.

[peteski]

OK ... the NCE controller can't read CV16. However I will try CV 15. the Recovery Pgm setting also doesn't seem to affect the decoder. Sometimes, I have control of the headlight -- can turn it on or off. Other times (put back on track again) I don't. Yes, I'm aware of DT's rather dubious reputation but nobody else makes a non-sound decoder for the Atlas FA.
Also, there can't be a short to the speaker as I removed it and one of the contacts. Maybe I should remove the other.

I also asked you specifically to try reading few other CVs - read my last message.

[bbussey]

This is all over the place ... Atlas never has released an FA2.  Life-Like did, prior to the Walthers acquisition, so they were not DCC ready.  They initially were with the plastic frame and then were reissued with the zinc split frame chassis.  The new Atlas FA1 comes equipped with an ESU decoder, either LokPilot or LokSound.  So the Digitrax or NCE decoders are not a factor with these two models unless you installed one after the fact.

[Lackawannae8]

I don't know why Lackawanae8 mentoned speaker connections - DN167n18 is not a sound decoder. I also  don't see Atlas FA2 listed on the spookshow's site  - is this a brand new loco he didn't write up yet?  I assume that it is since it takes decoders with Next18 connector.

EDIT: looks like  I missed the FA2 writeup on spookshow's site: https://spookshow.net/loco/llalcof.html but I still don't see how the speaker connections could mess up a non-sound decoder on which some CVs can be read.




Aside the fact that Digitrax decoders to me are not worth buying, do you think the decoder is locked? How about reading CV15? Did the decoder come installed from the factory, or you installed brand new decoder in it yourself?  New decoder should not be locked.

System recovery is described  in the manual as:
Press 1 to enter Recovery mode. This will reprogram NCE decoders (and most others) to their original factory values. It will also set addresses, motor control CVs and Function Mapping CVs to a useful state so that you can get control of a decoder.
As each CV is programmed the CV number is displayed.

I never actually used that feature.  What happens? Are the CV values displayed as per the manual, or it displays failure?

If the decoder can identify the manufacturer and version, it successfully reads CV7 and CV8. Can you read those directly In the programming track mode?

Assuming that it is not locked, can you read any other CVs?  Your writeup was not very clear about that.  Can you read CV1, 29, or 19?

because those phosphor bronze strips move and touch and cause hell. I despise these engines like mosquitos, I refuse to run mine after they got "Repaired" x4 because of the poor design, also forgot to mention the main boards had issues as well.. got mine back and they just sit in a drawer awaiting their fate.

[peteski]

This is all over the place ... Atlas never has released an FA2.  Life-Like did, prior to the Walthers acquisition, so they were not DCC ready.  They initially were with the plastic frame and then were reissued with the zinc split frame chassis.  The new Atlas FA1 comes equipped with an ESU decoder, either LokPilot or LokSound.  So the Digitrax or NCE decoders are not a factor with these two models unless you installed one after the fact.

All over the place? Not surprising considering who is asking the question. 
One thing we know is that whatever model it is, it has a Next18 socket for decoder. Or do we? That would imply it is the latest Atlas release of the FA# model. The one shown in the photo from spookshow's site I linked to earlier. As for the decoder, it was never mentioned whether the decoder came factory-installed or installed by OldEast. Since a model number of Digitrax (not NCE or ESU) decoder was mentioned  I assumed that OldEast installed it himself, but we all know what happens when one ASSumes. 

lackawanae8, at first you were talking about problems with the "sidesaddle" speaker connections, and now about phosphor-bronze strips. Are you talking about the strips connecting chassis to the trucks, or the motor and speaker contacts which are on the top of the chassis for speaker and motor connections?  I guess I don't get the sidesaddle reference.

[Mark5]

Pete,

The FA1 and FA2 locos have different truck centers ,therefore different chassis (the FA-2 is 2' longer).

The Lifelike FA-2 has not yet been released by Atlas, therefore there are no decoder versions to discuss. 

Mark

[Lackawannae8]

All over the place? Not surprising considering who is asking the question. 
One thing we know is that whatever model it is, it has a Next18 socket for decoder. Or do we? That would imply it is the latest Atlas release of the FA# model. The one shown in the photo from spookshow's site I linked to earlier. As for the decoder, it was never mentioned whether the decoder came factory-installed or installed by OldEast. Since a model number of Digitrax (not NCE or ESU) decoder was mentioned  I assumed that OldEast installed it himself, but we all know what happens when one ASSumes. 

lackawanae8, at first you were talking about problems with the "sidesaddle" speaker connections, and now about phosphor-bronze strips. Are you talking about the strips connecting chassis to the trucks, or the motor and speaker contacts which are on the top of the chassis for speaker and motor connections?  I guess I don't get the sidesaddle reference.

when i find time to tear mine apart and get photos then upload the photos off my camera to the memory card I can show you exactly what i am referring to with the ***** design of the motor and speaker saddles.

[bbussey]

when i find time to tear mine apart and get photos then upload the photos off my camera to the memory card I can show you exactly what i am referring to with the ***** design of the motor and speaker saddles.

If you’re speaking about the Atlas ex-LifeLike FA, I strongly disagree. The short screw-mounted copper pickups are vastly superior to the long-used Kato/Atlas long clip-in copper strips. I have had absolutely no issues with out-of-alignment strips as I do periodically with the old design.  The engine saddle mount and speaker mount is the same design that Atlas has used for years. I incorporated the pickup method in my digitized LifeLike FB2 and I will be using the design in my scratchbuilt power moving forward.

[bbussey]

OK ... the NCE controller can't read CV16. However I will try CV 15. the Recovery Pgm setting also doesn't seem to affect the decoder. Sometimes, I have control of the headlight -- can turn it on or off. Other times (put back on track again) I don't. Yes, I'm aware of DT's rather dubious reputation but nobody else makes a non-sound decoder for the Atlas FA.
Also, there can't be a short to the speaker as I removed it and one of the contacts. Maybe I should remove the other.

Also, you’re mistaken regarding non-sound decoder availability for the FA1.  The Gold FA1s have ESU LokSound decoders. I don’t have any Silver FA1s. If the Silver units are DCC-ready rather than DCC-equipped, the best option is to install the comparable LokPilot decoder.

[peteski]

I'm getting  more and more confused.  I better shut up and get some popcorn.  As far as decoders go, new-ish Atlas models will likely have E24 or Next18 sockets for decoders.

[OldEastRR]

Boy, this fun to read. And YOU guys get upset if I'm derogatory or mean. Ah, so be it. The facts is:

It's the LATEST Atlas FA release, which I suppose is a FA1 A UNIT!

I bought it WITHOUT a decoder installed, which I suppose means it's Silver model.

The decoder I installed is a DIGITRAX with a next 18 connection, and I got this brand because at  the time it was the only nonsound one available. I am NOT a fan of DT, and I'll never get another. I suspect DT decoders do not like to play nice with NCE controllers. My friend seems to have problems with DT decoders on NCE controls, too.

As an aside, I do have an old LifeLike FA1, the ones that came with big solid metal chassis. My DCC whiz friend did all the work to install decoder, speaker and keep-alive in it and it runs fine, along with the dummy LL FA-2B. I was hoping to lash up the Atlas FA to these two to pull long strings but oh well .... I'll now see if anybody else makes an n18 non-sound decoder besides "those guys"...

Oh, funny story... I did once upon a time lament on TRW that the only N FAs made that ran good were by lifeLife but it was time somebody redid that loco. One bbussey scorned my wish, saying that there were thousands of decent LL FAs out there and that meant nobody would ever make a new run of FAs in N. Not ever .. 

[peteski]

Well if you look at the subject line you used for this tread, it shows . . . FA2  Thus the confusion ensued.  So who is to blame for this?

Other companies (American and European)  other than Digitrax make non-sound decoders with Next18 connectors. Actually I didn't even know Digitrax made those decoders (as I don't really look at their decoder line).