Etched parts Curiosity

[Lackawannae8]

thought this was pretty cool as I have been wondering how they actually make small etched parts..

[Mark5]

Thanks for posting this - I've actually been wondering what it would take to get some of the etched parts that disappeared with Gold Medal Models, JNJ, etc. back in production. 🤔

[randgust]

Nice video and very accurate.

Micro-Mark used to have a 'home etching kit' that I actually got.  Same process.

You got metal, developer, ferric chloride etchant, laminate sheets, a clear box, heater, everything.   

It did actually work.  But you could work all day long to come up with a 2x3" sheet of something.   The aquarium bubbler to stir etchant didn't work well at all, dumped it.  I added a stirrer system using K'nex and lego parts (all plastic) that was effective as well to get the etching uniform and quicker.   I managed to make a couple sheets of usable parts.   Chris333 helped with the artwork.

I set up a full work area with forced air ventilation, a containment area for spills,  photo lights to work in the dark, wore PPP and goggles, gloves, the works.

My wife came down and looked at it all.   With me in PPP, goggles.   WHAT are you doing?    She wasn't necessarily shocked.  But I loved her comment.  "you have everything here to be classified as a drug lab, you're all set up for it.   Just like Walter White..... may as well go into that and make some REAL money...!"  and walked out of the shop. 

Had a point there, I admitted.  I was trying to make kit parts.  For that, making multiple parts, it was completely worthless.   Now that I felt I truly understood the process, I contacted a metal etching outfit to make my kit parts, worked wonderfully for many years.   Same outfit as GMM, so the quality was just excellent.  But as you heard, he quit taking orders due to a bunch of reasons.   End of that.  My CF7 kit already got murdered by changes in the Atlas GP mech, so that was the end anyway.   My etcher had modified my drawings to fit his equipment, so those were his property, so it's like loosing the dies on injection molding.   You don't get that back even if you ask.  Which is why GMM is equally stuck.

I sold all my home stuff, almost got out of it what I put into it, but I'd added a lot too.   But I classified this in the same area as putting on a roof on a house (did that, too, ONCE).   You can do it, you proved you can do it, you did it well.... and you will NEVER do that again.  You'll pay for it gladly.   I don't recommend this as a home hobbyist function.

[SAH]

ppdltd in the UK support my flights of fancy requiring etched parts.  Great to work with and the cost is reasonable, given that I don't have to do it myself.

However, this discussion begs the question:  Why do we have to go to the UK to get etched sheets?  Or do we? 

[peteski]

I've been etching copper clad PC boards since I was a teen (and still do). I have also home-etched some brass and nickel-silver detail parts.  However I agree that it would be the best to find a company that will do the job using specialized equipment.

PPD Ltd is such company. As for something similar Stateside, I think generally local companies do not  handle (reasonably priced) small production runs like PPD does.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I tried a few home etching kits with disastrous result. Either the photo mask never lined up well, or the etchant was too mild or too aggressive. When I had to run some parts for the PD hoppers, I had @Lemosteam design them and ordered the parts from Scotland. That process worked really well, and they were able to do some really cool tricks, like stepped etching. I think the entire process was about $350 (10+ years ago), which translated to about $15 a car.

Here is the project in a nutshell. I learned to live with the mistakes, though it took a good year to get over it.
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=52307.0

[Mark5]

PPD Ltd is such company. As for something similar Stateside, I think generally local companies do not  handle (reasonably priced) small production runs like PPD does.

Daniel (above) mentioned a run of about 23 pieces - when does a production run cease being small in this context?

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Daniel (above) mentioned a run of about 23 pieces - when does a production run cease being small in this context?

I used PPD for this project. They specialize in small runs (less than 10 A4 sized sheets) and prototyping. I had either 3 or 5 A4 sheets made, which was enough for about 20-24 kits.

I was really hoping PCBWay would also start photo etching, but no luck. PCBWay does photo PC board photo etching and assembly, 3d printing and milling. This would make it almost a 1 stop shop for producing ground up engine projects.

[wm3798]

Between regulations on the chemistry and processes to produce a volume of products (I think this is what GMM's manufacturer in California complained of as it folded its tents) and the tedium and challenge of home brewing described above, I'm sad to say that etched metal parts are likely a thing of the past, as 3D printing becomes more and more prevalent.  I've got a bunch of printed WM hoppers done by @PiperguyUMD that require ladders and grabs to be attached, which he also provided, but the daggone things are so delicate and brittle, they're near impossible to get off the sprue without destroying them.

Oh what I'd give to replace that set of GMM ladders I turned into a guardrail all those years ago!



Lee

[peteski]

Between regulations on the chemistry and processes to produce a volume of products (I think this is what GMM's manufacturer in California complained of as it folded its tents) and the tedium and challenge of home brewing described above, I'm sad to say that etched metal parts are likely a thing of the past, as 3D printing becomes more and more prevalent. 

I disagree (at least for now). The durability of etched metal cannot be duplicated with plastic.  There is room for both technologies. Plus, the advantage of using bare stainless steel for what is supposed to be metallic looking items (like the side mirrors on semi-trucks) is important.  That's just one example.

[Mark5]

I disagree (at least for now).

I agree with this disagreement. 

There are countless firms that provide etched parts for all sorts of customers across the spectrum from defense contractors all the way down to various hobby applications.

The challenge for small runs is finding someone that will take on "small" runs (whatever way that is defined) and at a "reasonable" cost.

[SAH]

I'm sad to say that etched metal parts are likely a thing of the past, as 3D printing becomes more and more prevalent.

Am I the only one thinking it's a bit ironic to hear the guy running Minitrix steamers (proudly I might add) at breakneck speeds, predicting the future for us?   

Can't do this with a 3D print right now.


3D print to .008"?  Some day - perhaps.  But I want to build models to my standards level today.  I've waited a long time to get to "some day".  Depends on where your standards are I suppose.

So far I've heard "regulations" as a barrier.  Defining small and reasonable are important too. 

[sirenwerks]

I’m a friend of the environment, but I’m a realist and common sense says if you want to run a business involving caustic chemicals, California would not be my first choice of locations. I too think etched metal has a definite place in the modeling repertoire. Especially for parts that may take a beating like railings, grabs and ladders.

[Sokramiketes]

Daniel (above) mentioned a run of about 23 pieces - when does a production run cease being small in this context?

PPD will do single items, which is the small part that they do that isn't typically offered stateside.  That's where PPD really caters to the hobbiest.

But, PPD has no problem running sheet after sheet of parts either.  Once you pay for the artwork, the cost per item comes down.  I've done several hundred frets with them as well.