Best match for SP Prussian Blue

[sirenwerks]

In your humble opinion, what's the best match for the Prussian Blue color Southern Pacific used on some of its steam boilers? Preferably an acrylic that matches straight out of the bottle...

[StarCruiser]

I don't think there has ever been an "out of bottle" match for that color.

What few examples I can find show it as a metallic greyish medium-dark blue color. Might be able to use AK Interactive's Metallic Cobalt Blue and Metallic Blue and airbrush in layers over a grey base?

Definitely need to get some scrap and try testing either mixes or layering.

https://ak-interactive.com/product/cobalt-blue-metallic/
https://ak-interactive.com/product/metallic-blue-metallic/

[robert3985]

Y'know, I did a little research into the subject and came up dry as to a particular paint to use straight out of the bottle.

However, I did find quite a few color photos of SP steam models in different scales, and I am aware that product shots, even professionally done, often get the color temperature screwed up.  That said, it appeared that quite a few manufacturers of brass engines colored their SP Prussian Blue as having a noticeable but slight greenish tint. 

I did not find any color prototype photos as something to compare the models with.

As screwed up as most paint brands get something as common as UP Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Grey, I've got my doubts about finding a verifiable SP Prusssian Blue paint, and you'll probably have to go with something that's close to a color photo that you like.

Good Luck!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Spades]

https://utahrails.net/russian-iron.php

Matching the Color of Russia Iron
From several sources:

Testor's Buffable Paints - the Jim Wilke Method. Testor's "Gunmetal" Metallizer buffable paint. It's marketed to aircraft modelers who need polished metal surfaces on their plastic kits. You airbrush it (or use the spray can version) and buff when dry to a genuine metallic finish. Then use Testor's Non Buffing Metallizer Sealer to prevent tarnishing. That's it. Three steps - paint, buff, seal.
Humbrol Paints - The Peter Bunce Method. 'Metalcote' paint from Humbrol - they have a 'Metallic Grey' color (ref 27004) which is a 14mm tinlet at £1 (UK) each. It is very thin, dries in 30 minutes and covers well (on white it could do with a couple of coats, and the surface needs to be smooth), looks very dull black in colour till polished with a smooth cloth -- then a transformation takes place: it takes on a satiny sheen, and turns dark grey (and lives up to its name!).
One skilled modeler uses a mix of stainless steel, loco black, and Conrail blue, with a touch of caboose red, or for a simpler solution, Floquil's Gun Metal can be used. (Grant Knowles, October 1999)
In his book, American Locomotives: An Engineering History, 1830-1880, on page 521, Jack White recommends a passable substitute for authentic Russia Iron: "...an automotive finish that closely resembles Russia Iron is Dulux Enamel Charcoal Metallic No. 4980-DX."
Comments by Kyle Wyatt, July 22, 2008:

A lot has been published in the last several decades about Russia iron (on the web and in print) by people who have never actually seen a sample, and are basing their statements on their (uninformed) interpretations of written descriptions. User beware. Historical 19th century information is generally pretty good, but needs to be interpreted while referencing actual samples. In particular, discussions of "color" in the historic texts (such as blue, green, etc) generally refer to "highlights", not to actual solid colors. At the time the 19th Century texts were written, people were very familiar with Russia iron and what it looked like.

Be very careful about what you interpret from black and white photos. Many things can influence how the film "reads" colors. First there is the type of emulsion/film - panchromatic; orthochromatic; wet plate - each will read colors differently, emphasing some colors and "hiding" others. Think of how panchromatic film "hides" the scarlet nose on the gray Southern Pacific diesels painted in "bloody nose", but how a filter (which can mimic a different emulsion) can make it standout.

Next, localized conditions can have a dramatic effect. I have an example where a locomotive with several surfaces known to be painted the same color (tender, cab, dome, pilot, etc) all appear different from each other. I also have a photo where a Russia iron jacket appears to be different colors on different parts of the boiler. For that matter, note how much variation there is in the colors of the Russia iron samples in the four photos I sent - and that is in color - just different angles on the same samples. (I held my Russia iron sample up next to the screen images on your site, and it is closest to the second one, but is a bit darker than that - at least as my screen renders it.)

This is a model with the Prussian blue boiler.https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/094101/HO-Brass-Model-Hallmark-Super-Crown-SP-Southern-Pacific-T-NO-C-24-2-8-0-Prussian-Blue-891-1925-F-P-OPEC-BEAUTIFUL-#:~:text=HO%20Brass%20Model%20%2D%20Hallmark%20Super,/P%20%2D%20OPEC%20%2D%20BEAUTIFUL!

From the ESPEE email list:  https://groups.io/g/Espee/search?p=%2C%2C%2C20%2C0%2C0%2C0%3A%3Arecentpostdate%2Fsticky%2C%2Cpainting%20steam%20locomotive%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C17207340&q=russian%20blue

[peteski]

So Prussian Blue (a non-metallic dark blue color used by artists) and Russia Iron (a metallic color which is not really blue) are the same?!  I thought those were two distinct colors.  Or was the name Prussian Blue used by mistake?

[NGPhil]

I'm not sure if you're talking about prussian blue or russian blue/planished iron etc. but I've been using Mr. Hobby Ultra Metallic Silver with a coating of Neolube on top to replicate the earlier iron boiler jacket look. Ambient light color plays a big role in the final look. I'd imagine prussian blue would be a much more rich/dark blue if it's some paint.





Looks really good in daylight.

[Spades]

So Prussian Blue (a non-metallic dark blue color used by artists) and Russia Iron (a metallic color which is not really blue) are the same?!  I thought those were two distinct colors.  Or was the name Prussian Blue used by mistake?

Peteski, you are correct, both .  This has been pointed out on the ESPEE list before.  I included the link should anyone want to explore: Prussian Blue, Russian Blue and Russian Iron

[Spades]

To muddy the waters further: http://modelingthesp.com/Steam_Locomotives/Steam_Locos_I..html


Paint

#1276, the Sacramento station switcher and Shops "pet", had a red cab roof and "green" boiler and cylinder jacket as late as 1940 (see SP Steam Pictorial Volume I, Appendix 3, page 150 for a photograph). It carried the green jacket into the mid-1950s as an Oakland Pier switcher. #1217 also carried a lighter gray-green jacket at Oakland Pier into the 1940s, as did at least one switcher at San Francisco's Third and Townsend Station. The San Jose station switcher carried a blue boiler jacket in the early 1950s.



The blue green hue of the boiler jacket was apparently mixed at the paint shop foremen's whim as they attempted to approximate what to them was the hue that represented that of Russia Iron previously used for boiler jackets or other applications (e.g. air pump and cylinder jackets) that incorporated metal subject to rust induced by heat, water and oxygen in the air. Photographs in the Dunscomb collection seem to favor application of "colors" to passenger and passenger station switch locomotives.

[Chris333]

**If**  this SP color is just Russia Iron, it should be a reflective silver/grey color that sometimes will reflect the color of the sky and look blue. But itself has no blue in it.

https://historyoftherails.com/2-samples-of-russia-iron-6-views/
https://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=/ref/russiairon/index.htm

No idea if SP used something else or not.

[sirenwerks]

This is a model with the Prussian blue boiler.https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/094101/HO-Brass-Model-Hallmark-Super-Crown-SP-Southern-Pacific-T-NO-C-24-2-8-0-Prussian-Blue-891-1925-F-P-OPEC-BEAUTIFUL-#:~:text=HO%20Brass%20Model%20%2D%20Hallmark%20Super,/P%20%2D%20OPEC%20%2D%20BEAUTIFUL!

I'm not trying to paint a steamer. Instead I am trying to find a blue that 1) will fit a Pacific NW 1970s vibe, 2) is more unique than the bland corporate blues of the B&O, MP, ATSF, etc, and 3) not as garish as the only other blue used in the Pacific NW in the 70s - Big Sky Blue. The latter makes me throw up a little every time I see it in its fresh state (not that I don't like sunny days here in Oregon). And yes, I know about the test scheme SP&S did on that poor RS3 late in its life, ew.
That being said, Chris, anytime you want to share your tricks, please do.
Spades' reference photo is the one I have been using to try to match. That blue has a slight teal to it. One SP modeler stated the Prussian Blue was matched via a 'color corrected photo' to Pantone 315C, which does have a teal to it but is way too light to match IMO. Originally, I was trying to match the SCNF's Sous-Marin blue, but my inability to read or write French to research a source for it put the cabash on that thought.
I think I'll grab a bottle of Vallejo Prussian Blue and try some simple mixes with a lighter green, or maybe I'll like it straight out of the bottle once I see it in person.

[Chris333]

When it comes to this type of thing instead of listening a part number for paint. I would say find a photo you think is correct and try to copy it.

[Frank Amato]

When it comes to this type of thing instead of listening a part number for paint. I would say find a photo you think is correct and try to copy it.

Sage advice, especially across paint lines/manufacturers.  Go with your eyeball, not names on paint bottles.

  Frank

[nkalanaga]

"the test scheme SP&S did on that poor RS3 late in its life, ew"

This is the first I've heard of the SP&S doing any "test schemes", and I lived in Pasco well into the BN era.  Does anyone have a picture of it?

Here's a picture, from Wikipedia, of the SNCF Sous-Marin Blue, if that will help.

[Spades]

Try googling Vallejo Prussian Blue . 
There are several lines/variations of the Prussian Blue hue of blue in the Vallejo line

[sirenwerks]

Try googling Vallejo Prussian Blue . 
There are several lines/variations of the Prussian Blue hue of blue in the Vallejo line

Already done. It’s a nice blue but not exactly what I had in mind.


That being said, funnily, I was perusing a manufacturers website and noticed the new Ferromex GEs are wearing a scheme with a blue similar to what I had in mind. Now to find it in hobby paint…