Routing question: ATSF hopper in Montana

[nkalanaga]

I model the BN, with a MILW interchange, in central Montana, in 1974.

I have a 2-bay, 50-ton, ATSF hopper.

Can anyone think of anything that would be shipped from ATSF territory to central Montana in such a hopper in 1974?  Or any other time, for that matter.

[samusi01]

Fertilizer? Only seeing one ATSF covered hopper in the GN wheel reports I have, and it's empty and en route to the ATSF agent at Carlsbad, NM. Routing via CNW interchange. The NP has a few more, and a third of them have fertilizer as a load.

[DirtyD79]

Hmmmm a covered hopper I'm figuring something like fertilizer for farms as samusi01 said or grain going to a mill to be converted to animal feed for cattle ranches nearby. As for an open hopper I'm not really sure what a Santa Fe one would be doing that far north. 

[nkalanaga]

No, not a covered hopper, a plain old HM "coal car", although I don't know if ATSF ever hauled coal in them.

A covered hopper I could see, fertilizer to the grain elevator, which has a small unloading elevator just for that.

[lock4244]

Copper concentrate from Arizona going to Butte.

[nkalanaga]

Thank you!  That would be an unlikely scenario, plenty of smelters in Arizona/New Mexico, but is possible.  At least I'll have a use for the car.

[John]

Operator error.  Lost car?

[lock4244]

Could be a test load, maybe smelter in Butte looking for more or different graded ore? If a customer is closer to Butte it my be cheaper to ship ore longer distance to smelt than cost to ship finished copper? Pre-Staggers act era.

[thomasjmdavis]

The SFRHMS "Open Top Car" book (ie- flats, gondolas and hoppers... and they threw in covered hoppers) has a photo of a 2 bay hopper being loaded with coal in Helper Utah on the D&RGW- so they definitely made it offline once in a while.  They also showed up in Ohio from time to time- delivering coal, I would presume, but maybe something else. And once a car is offline, if it can be loaded with something that made the per diem worthwhile (if it still worked that way in 1974), it might end up in odd locations.  Check out the

There is also a photo from the 1970s of a 3 bay hopper that was labeled for "tin can loading only"- no ideas where those came from or went, but if you have a steel plant or a tin processing plant, might be a possibility. 

And Santa Fe moved lots of minerals of various descriptions.

One other oddball thought- there were cases where Canadian industries and utilities brought in large amounts of US coal (miners strikes, maybe?).  There is a photo out there somewhere of strings of C&EI cars loaded with Illinois coal in the CN yards in Toronto. So, maybe something similar happens in the west once in a while too?

.

[Rivet Miscounter]

Single loads of coal or petro coke for industries with furnaces. (thinking the copper smelter would be one option)    Especially (as was mentioned) if they needed a particular grade.   Santa Fe still ran to Borger, TX at that point which has a large (then Phillips) refinery that ships coke.   I don't know anything about the operation or if that would make sense, but if it were me that's where I would start.   That or ATSF coal mines still in operation, or maybe a road like the Colorado & Wyoming possibly leased ATSF hoppers for hauling coal.

[nkalanaga]

John: Operator error is probably the most likely reason!

I hadn't paid attention to it, but there was an Anaconda Company smelter in Great Falls, into the 1970s, which would be a more likely destination than Butte for my railroad.  It would be a roundabout way, but up the Inside Gateway, through Pasco to Spokane, then misrouted at Whitefish.  It should go to either Shelby, and south to Great Falls, or the ex-NP to Helena, and north.  I have coal from one town going to Great Falls, so it could be combined with that in Helena.

Thank you, everybody!

[John]

And the great news, JMRI operationsPro can simulate this very nicely by sending random cars to random places 

[nkalanaga]

So can I, with a list of my roster, and some random number generation in Excel.  No bigger than my layout is, industry-wise, that works fine.

[John]

So can I, with a list of my roster, and some random number generation in Excel.  No bigger than my layout is, industry-wise, that works fine.

I'm sure -- My attempt at JMRI humor didn't work ..   when I first started playing with the program, it would consistently route a couple of cars to random places, or from one yard track to another without rhyme or reason ...

[nkalanaga]

I thought you were serious, and an occasional random routing, if it's an appropriate car type for the destination, would add variety.

I have a stock car that can be sent to the grain elevators.  Quite prototypical, as there was little demand for stock cars in the mid 1970s, and the BN needed all the grain cars they could get.  Clean the car out, line it with plywood, and one has grain car.  Elevators didn't like them, as most were only 40-ton cars, so the BN offered two for the shipping cost of a 50-ton car.

They also shipped grain in old iced reefers, after they quit icing them.  Those worked better, in spite of the limited capacity. They could be loaded through the roof hatches, and the doors sealed, so didn't need grain doors.