Better Sound

[Diesel Critter]

Good morning everyone. I need some advice about sound and am hoping you guys can help. I am looking to get better sound from my locomotives and I don't know the best way to go about it. I have all DCC engines and the sound is not the best from them. I have looked into a sound box but the ones recommended (Kato and Wow) do not work with DCC. I am new to this hobby and don't know much about sound decoders so I can't determine if new sound decoders would help or not. I hear great sound from N scale locos on Youtube and that kind of sound is what I am looking for. I have Broadway Limited and Ahearn locos. Any advice is appreciated.

[John]

Welcome to the forum . we have some pretty sound savy folks here .. I'm sure you will get good advice..    They will likely recommend ESU as the go to decoders .. It will help if you pick a couple of locos you want to start with ..  do you feel comfortable doing the installs, including milling the frames? 

[Sumner]

.... I have all DCC engines and the sound is not the best from them. ....

Do you have sound equipped locos now....wasn't sure from your post?

If so you might get good results with a different speaker and an enclosure with what you have.  Personally I feel the enclosure is as important as the speaker.  If your speakers are open with no enclosure I'd try an enclosure/speaker combination first.

Sumner

[u18b]

Welcome to the forum.

It's mostly about the sound box.   It must cover one side of the speaker in an air tight way.    That way, air is accessible to the speaker from one side but not the other.

For example here:


You can see that the sound box is superglued to the speaker all around the edges on one side.   But the back side allows air to come into the corners of the metal backing.    The speaker can face in or out but I usually prefer to have the speaker face inward so the diaphragm is protected.

In this example, the speaker box size is rather small.... but puts out a good sound.

[robert3985]

I recommend ESU Loksound for diesels, and Soundtraxx Tsunami's for Steam. 

With ESU decoders, it isn't absolutely necessary, but if you go with a lot of ESU Loksound decoders, you'll want to unlock their full potential by also purchasing and using their LokProgrammer.

One of the superior features of the Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder is the integral graphic equalizer which allows you to adjust your sound to fit your speaker and enclosure properties, which is particularly important with steam sounds.

A quality speaker is necessary, but...the most important thing is AN AIRTIGHT SPEAKER ENCLOSURE that totally encloses one side of your speaker.  I'm emphasizing it because it is the most important part of getting good sound out of a good sound decoder and is an absolute MUST for both sound quality and volume.  Without the airtight speaker enclosure, any DCC sound decoder is going to sound like crap.

However, the true quality of sound you'll be getting out of any N-scale DCC sound decoder is sub-par, simply because of the minuscule size of the speaker, which is physically incapable (as of now) of reproducing low frequency sound, which means that it is doubly important to install as large a speaker as is physically possible in any engine you convert to sound.

I find it also important to install a keep-alive with sound equipped DCC engines.  This is because when the power is interrupted, it's common for your engine to stop and go through its start-up sequence before you can get going again, which is a royal PITA.  With a high capacity keep-alive, you won't have this problem.

I would recommend @peteski as one of the resident experts to advise you on all the particulars of keep-alives.

DCC sound is the main reason I decided to convert my roster to DCC and totally re-wire my layout in the process.  To me, engines that don't have sound feel dead compared to sound-equipped engines...even with low-quality sound decoders in them.  However, once I get the right decoder installed and it adjusted the way I want, it always brings a huge smile to my face.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[randgust]

As the designated DCC and sound Luddite here, I followed the advice of the forum members and put a Tsunami 1100 in the tender my my Minitrix rebuild Decapod, speaker under the foam coal pile, with the recommended speaker and enclosure.   Hoped for the best and wanted it.

I was absolutely stunned by the quality of the sound out of the Tsunami.   Then I started having fun with playing with it, adjusting the RPM frequency, changing the whistle to the proper PRR banshee, etc.   Wow.  The sheer number of tweaks in that decoder is astounding.

The standard capacitor as a keep-alive was unsatisfactory, I got a new one, running out of space but made it work.  Very small and effective.
https://www.iascaled.com/store/CKT-DCCSA?search=CKT-DCCSA
 NOW I have a winner, and it ran like a champ at Altoona, sound, whistle, etc.   Could not have done it without the forum.

It was fun coming up into the big Ttrak setup yard and setting on the bell and putting warning blasts on the whistle to clear the hands away, coming through.... it served a purpose.  It was equally fun to blow whistles at adults (and kids) getting a little 'too close for comfort'.   That's just pure fun, period.

Moral of the story?   These guys do know what they are talking about.   Even to somebody in N scale since '72.

[NtheBasement]

Has anyone dealt with the lack of bass by hooking a decoder to a decent stereo with a subwoofer?  You would need to program the sound system's decoder and your locomotive to the same loco address.

[Diesel Critter]

Welcome to the forum . we have some pretty sound savy folks here .. I'm sure you will get good advice..    They will likely recommend ESU as the go to decoders .. It will help if you pick a couple of locos you want to start with ..  do you feel comfortable doing the installs, including milling the frames?

Thank you for the info.

[Diesel Critter]

I recommend ESU Loksound for diesels, and Soundtraxx Tsunami's for Steam. 

With ESU decoders, it isn't absolutely necessary, but if you go with a lot of ESU Loksound decoders, you'll want to unlock their full potential by also purchasing and using their LokProgrammer.

One of the superior features of the Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder is the integral graphic equalizer which allows you to adjust your sound to fit your speaker and enclosure properties, which is particularly important with steam sounds.

A quality speaker is necessary, but...the most important thing is AN AIRTIGHT SPEAKER ENCLOSURE that totally encloses one side of your speaker.  I'm emphasizing it because it is the most important part of getting good sound out of a good sound decoder and is an absolute MUST for both sound quality and volume.  Without the airtight speaker enclosure, any DCC sound decoder is going to sound like crap.

However, the true quality of sound you'll be getting out of any N-scale DCC sound decoder is sub-par, simply because of the minuscule size of the speaker, which is physically incapable (as of now) of reproducing low frequency sound, which means that it is doubly important to install as large a speaker as is physically possible in any engine you convert to sound.

I find it also important to install a keep-alive with sound equipped DCC engines.  This is because when the power is interrupted, it's common for your engine to stop and go through its start-up sequence before you can get going again, which is a royal PITA.  With a high capacity keep-alive, you won't have this problem.

I would recommend @peteski as one of the resident experts to advise you on all the particulars of keep-alives.

DCC sound is the main reason I decided to convert my roster to DCC and totally re-wire my layout in the process.  To me, engines that don't have sound feel dead compared to sound-equipped engines...even with low-quality sound decoders in them.  However, once I get the right decoder installed and it adjusted the way I want, it always brings a huge smile to my face.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

I recommend ESU Loksound for diesels, and Soundtraxx Tsunami's for Steam. 

With ESU decoders, it isn't absolutely necessary, but if you go with a lot of ESU Loksound decoders, you'll want to unlock their full potential by also purchasing and using their LokProgrammer.

One of the superior features of the Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder is the integral graphic equalizer which allows you to adjust your sound to fit your speaker and enclosure properties, which is particularly important with steam sounds.

A quality speaker is necessary, but...the most important thing is AN AIRTIGHT SPEAKER ENCLOSURE that totally encloses one side of your speaker.  I'm emphasizing it because it is the most important part of getting good sound out of a good sound decoder and is an absolute MUST for both sound quality and volume.  Without the airtight speaker enclosure, any DCC sound decoder is going to sound like crap.

However, the true quality of sound you'll be getting out of any N-scale DCC sound decoder is sub-par, simply because of the minuscule size of the speaker, which is physically incapable (as of now) of reproducing low frequency sound, which means that it is doubly important to install as large a speaker as is physically possible in any engine you convert to sound.

I find it also important to install a keep-alive with sound equipped DCC engines.  This is because when the power is interrupted, it's common for your engine to stop and go through its start-up sequence before you can get going again, which is a royal PITA.  With a high capacity keep-alive, you won't have this problem.

I would recommend @peteski as one of the resident experts to advise you on all the particulars of keep-alives.

DCC sound is the main reason I decided to convert my roster to DCC and totally re-wire my layout in the process.  To me, engines that don't have sound feel dead compared to sound-equipped engines...even with low-quality sound decoders in them.  However, once I get the right decoder installed and it adjusted the way I want, it always brings a huge smile to my face.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Welcome to the forum . we have some pretty sound savy folks here .. I'm sure you will get good advice..    They will likely recommend ESU as the go to decoders .. It will help if you pick a couple of locos you want to start with ..  do you feel comfortable doing the installs, including milling the frames?

Thanks for the info.

[ednadolski]

Has anyone dealt with the lack of bass by hooking a decoder to a decent stereo with a subwoofer?  You would need to program the sound system's decoder and your locomotive to the same loco address.

Any particular scale?

These have both onboard and under-layout speakers.


Ed

[jdcolombo]

Let me add my welcome to The Railwire.

I think you will find some useful information here:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31981.0  (While this thead is labeled "ESU Loksound Installation Threads and Techniques", it starts with some generally-applicable information to ALL sound installations, and there are links to general technique threads like how to build a speaker enclosure).

As others have noted, the key to the absolute best sound is to use an air-tight enclosure that is of sufficient internal volume (e.g., big enough) for the size of speaker chosen.  And the bigger the speaker, the better, but not at the expense of a too-small enclosure.  See the thread linked above.

I personally use ESU LokSound decoders, even for steam installations (the LokSound now permits adjustment to the bass and treble output, although it is still not as flexible on the sound adjustment front as the Soundtraxx Tsunami, which I have used for steam installations in the past).  Both ESU and Soundtraxx make excellent products.

As for the question about "missing bass" - I have in the past hooked a decoder to an under-layout powered speaker for bass reinforcement, but found that this produced way too much bass for the size of engine (N scale).  My own view is that sound is most effective when it "scales" to the size of the models; G-scale and O-scale stuff SHOULD have prodigious amounts of bass; they are big models.  But having a subwoofer going in the train room for an engine that is 4" long (N-scale) creates a mental mis-match for me.  I prefer well-done sound coming from a single speaker in the engine itself.  YMMV.

John C.

[randgust]

At the moment I'm tinkering (more like creative destruction) on a BLI RSD15 and noted the odd 'rolling thunder' antenna across the top of the decoder board, which I'm 'assuming' is the transmitter to their external subwoofer speaker for more bass. 

I have a digital loop recorder under my locomotive fueling facility with about a 10" speaker that pretty much fills the small layout room already with recorded low diesel idling, with the spitter valves going off periodically.   I also have digital loops at my grade crossings with bells and whistles tied into the system.     

The problem I have with sound in general for my big layout (stuffed in a small room) is that for my operation, I need to hear the actual train; I rarely have derailments unless I roll through a locked switch, but if I do on a 35car train 48" above the floor, it's relatively catastrophic.   Even the dehumidifier kicking on is just annoying as white noise blackout.  I also noticed that at the Altoona convention center, lower frequency sounds were just about completely lost in the background noise.  So while it's darn fun, I'm still not convinced it's worth the bigger fight to install.

[Diesel Critter]

Let me add my welcome to The Railwire.

I think you will find some useful information here:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31981.0  (While this thead is labeled "ESU Loksound Installation Threads and Techniques", it starts with some generally-applicable information to ALL sound installations, and there are links to general technique threads like how to build a speaker enclosure).

As others have noted, the key to the absolute best sound is to use an air-tight enclosure that is of sufficient internal volume (e.g., big enough) for the size of speaker chosen.  And the bigger the speaker, the better, but not at the expense of a too-small enclosure.  See the thread linked above.


Thanks for information.


I personally use ESU LokSound decoders, even for steam installations (the LokSound now permits adjustment to the bass and treble output, although it is still not as flexible on the sound adjustment front as the Soundtraxx Tsunami, which I have used for steam installations in the past).  Both ESU and Soundtraxx make excellent products.

As for the question about "missing bass" - I have in the past hooked a decoder to an under-layout powered speaker for bass reinforcement, but found that this produced way too much bass for the size of engine (N scale).  My own view is that sound is most effective when it "scales" to the size of the models; G-scale and O-scale stuff SHOULD have prodigious amounts of bass; they are big models.  But having a subwoofer going in the train room for an engine that is 4" long (N-scale) creates a mental mis-match for me.  I prefer well-done sound coming from a single speaker in the engine itself.  YMMV.

John C.

[Sumner]

Has anyone dealt with the lack of bass by hooking a decoder to a decent stereo with a subwoofer? 

I built the sound decoder option above that transmits Bluetooth to a Bluetooth speaker (could be a Bluetooth speaker with a subwoofer) that can be placed anywhere or...

... above there is a Bluetooth speaker in the box car that can be attached to a DC or DCC engine without sound.  More info ( HERE )  and ( HERE )

You can also....

.... use it to run a DC engine as shown above.


Sumner

[peteski]

I'm with John C. that a tiny N scale loco should not produce deep thundering bass sound (on-board or under the layout). That type of sound just seems out of scale to me.  Everything on a N scale layout is tiny, and the loud deep sound just doesn't fit the scene.