N-Possible in Z

[Rivet Miscounter]

Being a very part-time N-Scaler, (primarily in Z now) I have only paid extremely minimal attention to the N-Possible developments.   But, the following footnote from Gary H's "Journal" post got my attention:

I do note that the AZL couplers are compatible with the N-Ps, so you don't have to commit en masse.  (The Full Throttle couplers are not compatible though.)

So many questions, but we'll start with:
1. Is the compatibility with AZL a bona-fide feature, or just an accidental discovery?   I guess the better way of asking...is the compatibility something that is considered consistent or is it more "well it worked most of the time so we're calling it close enough".   I'm not aware of anyone using AZL couplers in N, so I'm just curious how this even came to pass.  This would move the needle from "meh I'll convert some captive service pieces in Z" to "holy smokes, this is big".   Being as most of my stuff is AZL, only having to convert a small subset of items to start--with virtually zero incompatibilities to deal with...that's the stuff legends are made of.
2. What is the interchangeability with 905's? [EDIT: To clarify, this particular question is asking about the pockets that were originally designed to handle 905's like the SW1500 and how that translates to N-P's]  I seem to recall something about that being a fairly straightforward deal.   Since a good number of AZL locos handle 905's, this would once again be a massive advantage if those conversions could be done readily.
3. And what about compatibility with 905's?   I recall reading something about some testing done at a show and a lot of random couplers were actually unexpectedly working well with the N-P's, but I can't recall about the MTL Z couplers.   [EDIT: And Gary's comment specifically calls out Full Throttle/Bowser as NOT working.]

Anyway, I need to do some more homework and watch some videos but I just wanted to do a little deeper dive into Gary's fine print.   

[GaryHinshaw]

1. Is the compatibility with AZL a bona-fide feature, or just an accidental discovery?

(I can't speak to Andrew's intent here, just my own experience.)  For me it was an accidental discovery.   I have a few boxcars I converted to AZL couplers about 10 years ago (!) when I was trying out various alternative couplers.  It just happens that they will mate with the N-Ps, as seen in this example:



It's not a particularly attractive pairing, and they require a bit of force to mate, but they work fine in a train.  Since the AZLs are also compatible with the Kato couplers, these boxcars make a convenient transition car until I get around to converting my locos.  I don't think I'd want to do much switching with a random mix of N-P and AZL cars, but you could.

2. What is the interchangeability with 905's? [EDIT: To clarify, this particular question is asking about the pockets that were originally designed to handle 905's like the SW1500 and how that translates to N-P's]  I seem to recall something about that being a fairly straightforward deal.   Since a good number of AZL locos handle 905's, this would once again be a massive advantage if those conversions could be done readily.

I don't know the answer to this.  I believe Ed Nadolski is going to look into converting an SW1500 to N-Ps, so he could probably comment before too long.

3. And what about compatibility with 905's?

The N-Ps will not mate with 905's.  You can force them together, but only if they are skewed, so the cars would not track well.

[turbowhiz]

I picked up a little bit of Z scale rolling stock to mess about with. Don't have any track on hand mind....

There was never any design intent for compatibility. But it does look like the AZL couplers work "ok enough" to be compatible from my own casual desktop testing. (Kato N scale couplers also seem to work "Okish" as well, not by design either)

You should be able to 1:1 replace a scalebox where you've used a 905. I quickly body-mounted a scalebox to a MTL boxcar and it clears the truck just fine (chopping off the oem box). Height seemed high, so I shimmed it down... I suspect you can't just mount up a 905 to a MTL car without some adjustment typically?

I have enough product development to do with N scale to keep me busy for years, so quite honestly Z is down the priority list a fair bit. But the NP scale couplers are smaller/better looking then any of the other Z scale options by the looks of it, so they probably have utility in their stock N scale form. Specifically short shank scalebox as 905 replacements.

I'll get some pics up when I get a chance.

 

[ednadolski]

I had installed 905s in my AZL SW1500s and I am eagerly looking forward to swapping them out for some scale-box NPs 

Ed

[Rivet Miscounter]

Thank you gentlemen.

Gary, that is sort of the reason for the excitement, is the "transition car" aspect.   And, every single AZL car is a transition car in this scenario.

A good bit of what I have planned is unit trains or otherwise trains that don't get switched a ton.   The primary cars that would be switched are overwhelmingly grain and a few centerbeams.   The AZL couplers aren't the best for switching, so I was reluctantly planning to swap out MTL's on the PS2-CD's.   So I'm still not sure the N-P's can be made to work on those, but if so that would just about 100% solve my problem.   Then I might look at doing the locos just because they look so much better and would still function with AZL's.  Anything is a candidate, assuming the conversions aren't crazy.

Andrew, thank you for your response.   I 1000% understand that Z isn't in play, and I wouldn't expect it to be, and I'm not asking it to be.  N-scale needs you.      But I'll try to apply the N version as far as I can go with it.   And if eventually there are opportunistic ways to integrate your existing products with an adapter or whatever that looks like, then I hope you might consider Z down the road.  Oh, and I'm sure I'll be a customer in N too...hopefully we can do something about the ScaleTrains couplers...yuck.

And yeah...the SW1500 conversion is really interesting.   I cannot wait to try out some of the N-P's in N (or Z) to see how they work.    A tiny switching layout with those tiny locos actually being able to couple nicely....that would be a thing of beauty.

[ednadolski]

The AZL couplers aren't the best for switching

Honestly, they are terrible for switching.  And the LEZ isn't much better.

That said, even if you could magically shrink an NP to Z (a Z-Possible?  you heard it here first, lol) remember it would be 73% smaller than a genuine NP.   That alone would make it fairly tricky to operate (or even see, FTM), plus you open up another level of fit/install/compatibility challenges to take on.   

(JMHO, for Z-scale cars a much more noticeable visual improvement than a scale coupler would be simply to lower the cars to a reasonable ride height, and get away from truck mounted couplers.  Much like we used to do for N-scale, and not all that long ago, but I digress )

Ed

[Rivet Miscounter]

...even if you could magically shrink an NP to Z <snip> remember it would be 73% smaller than a genuine NP.   That alone would make it fairly tricky to operate (or even see, FTM), plus you open up another level of fit/install/compatibility challenges to take on.

Absolutely.   I don't really have any interest in asking for a shrunken N-P at all.  I'm far more interested in function, but the form as-is is still an improvement over anything else in Z.   I would 100% be happy with the current size to use in Z.   I acknowledge I might be in the minority with that.   My only ask for Z might be some adapter pieces like for the grain hoppers. (see below)   I still have much to learn...I don't know if a scalebox home-brew 3D-printed mod is possible, or if the retro kit is the answer there, or something else.

lower the cars to a reasonable ride height, and get away from truck mounted couplers.

Yes, some lowering would help for sure.   And body-mount will likely be a necessity if we want to use N-P's in Z.  And that may be where things get challenging since there's not really a way to play tricks with the back of the coupler box like you could with MTL's.

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I was just looking at the AZL PS2-CD's and they will need the end-platform conversion piece to do body mounts.  Hopefully that can be done in a way that will integrate nicely with the N-P's.  (that is sort of what I was alluding to in reference to "an adapter or whatever" above.)   I'm guessing the centerbeams will be slightly easier but I don't have one handy to look at.

[Sokramiketes]

I can do some dabbling and report back.  I was standardizing on the LEZ when working in Z scale, trying to reduce the gap between cars.  Yes lowering them helped apperance too, but man did most Z cars couple with a huge gap between.

Won't take much to screw on some nPossible's and take a photo. 

[Sokramiketes]

Here’s some images to show you the nPossible in a Z scale world. This is on an AZL 3-bay hopper.

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You could probably move it back a bit if you slimmed the bolster, but wanted to show the exposure as is.

[Rivet Miscounter]

So that's the ACF, and that is nice to know that it is fairly straightforward.

Here is the PS2-CD:

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I'll try to get some measurements posted.  I just ordered a handful of the N-Possible couplers so I can see what fits where and then I'll try to see if I can fabricate something for the PS2-CDs.

[ednadolski]

That PS2 looks like it could use something similar to the 3D printed parts that @GaryHinshaw did for some of his N-scale conversions.  Perhaps something with an integral pocket, and (more ambitiously) even a bolster to lower the car.

Ed

[Rivet Miscounter]

I just ordered a handful of the N-Possible couplers so I can see what fits where and then I'll try to see if I can fabricate something for the PS2-CDs.

Ooof, shipping charge for these coming from Canada to the US is no joke.   I advise everyone to order more than a handful...wish I'd known.    Is there any plan to have additional distribution?

EDIT: I was able to reach out to Credit Valley and convert the order to "two handfuls" so that is better.   They are extremely responsive and helpful.

[ednadolski]

Here’s some images to show you the nPossible in a Z scale world. This is on an AZL 3-bay hopper.

is that the scale box with the short or med shank?

Ed

[Sokramiketes]

is that the scale box with the short or med shank?

Ed

Short Shank. 

[Jesse6669]

Is there any plan to have additional distribution?

Yep shipping is expensive and (possibly) there will be customs/duty to boot.  I purchased an original artwork from a Canadian artist and FedEx billed me quite a large sum for customs;  After receiving the bill I requested a review since it's an artwork, but I think it's just fallout from the whole Trump tariff policy/trade war with Canada.  Don't wanna take jerbs away from US artists I guess... 

Anyway, I'm waiting for availability of the NPs through a US outlet--which I believe is planned.

Once I do get some, I'll be fiddling with body mount adapters for some AZL cars/locos as well, or perhaps 3D printed trucks that will accept the NPs talgo style.  I can't imagine the Z scale autoracks I made handling curves with body mounted couplers, unless they're huge radius curves.