Ballast changed colour after matte medium.

[craigolio1]

Hey all.

I came up with a mixture that I liked for my ballast. After I applied diluted matte medium, it looks darker. Is there a way to avoid this and keep the colour closer to its look when dry?

Thanks.

Craig.

[eja]

Is it really completely dry ?

That may be the issue.

[craigolio1]

Is it really completely dry ?

That may be the issue.

I think so. It’s been almost 2 weeks.

[thomasjmdavis]

What type of ballast are you using? (ie- real crushed stone, colored sand, grout, whatever it is that woodland scenics makes ballast from, etc)

I am planning to use light limestone on part of my layout- I'll be disappointed if it turns dark.

[JeffB]

I came up with a mixture that I liked for my ballast. After I applied diluted matte medium, it looks darker. Is there a way to avoid this and keep the color closer to its look when dry?

I've found it'll do this with natural materials (sand, topsoil, fine crushed stone, etc...) if you apply way too much diluted matte medium.  But alternatively, other glues ("white glue" or any other type of water based/acrylic glue) do the same thing.

The key with matte medium...  I dilute it 3:1 with water.  Shake the heck out of it to mix.  Let it sit for a few weeks in a closed container, which will allow the solids to precipitate out and accumulate on the bottom of the container.  Decant the white liquid into another container.  What this will do is prevent your scenery or ballast from getting a white film on it if you really soak it with the diluted MM.  It's a trick that Dave Frary passed down to one of the E-lists I was on years ago.

After I decant the fluid into a clean container, I'll pour about 5% (by volume) of 91% or 99% Isopropyl Alcohol into the container.  This ensures that you have  absolutely no surface tension to the glue mix.  Don't do this prior to adding water to matte medium!

For use, spray the dry scenery materials with IPA to wet, then apply the dilute matte medium/alcohol mix with your preferred method.  You don't need to drown your scenery with it.  I've seen a lot of "how to's" that show guys putting down so much that there's puddles of white fluid everywhere.  Matte medium, even diluted is a strong and flexible adhesive.  Apply enough that the material has a slight white haze after putting it down, then stop.

You can lighten darkened soils with powdered chalk/pastels, but for track it'll alter the color of the ties and rails as well if you're sloppy with it.

One way to get around this darkening is to choose a material that's slightly lighter so that when it does get darker, it's close to the final color you're looking for.

Jeff

[Ed Kapuscinski]

The key with matte medium...  I dilute it 3:1 with water.  Shake the heck out of it to mix.  Let it sit for a few weeks in a closed container, which will allow the solids to precipitate out and accumulate on the bottom of the container.  Decant the white liquid into another container.  What this will do is prevent your scenery or ballast from getting a white film on it if you really soak it with the diluted MM.  It's a trick that Dave Frary passed down to one of the E-lists I was on years ago.

Geez, at that point, just go with white glue. Ain't nobody got time for that! lol

[JeffB]

Geez, at that point, just go with white glue. Ain't nobody got time for that! lol

That's why you make it up well ahead of time Ed...  Planning ahead matters. 

I have two large OJ containers with this mixture at the ready.  It doesn't go bad, probably a combination of being an acrylic and having a good amount of IPA in it. 

Jeff

[dem34]

Yeah I stopped using Matte Medium after the first time I got a whole foot long section of ballast ruined with Talc film. Never had diluted elmers school glue go wrong like that.

[JeffB]

Yeah I stopped using Matte Medium after the first time I got a whole foot long section of ballast ruined with Talc film. Never had diluted elmers school glue go wrong like that.

Yeah, had that problem many years ago...  Brought it up on a small Yahoo groups list that Dave Frary was also on and he came back with the fix for it.

Been doing it ever since and not had that problem. 

The nice thing about thinned matte medium is that if you don't like what you've done, you just spray Isopropyl Alcohol over the area and scrape it up.  Super easy. 

Elmers is fine...  It's cheap, but I think it darkens natural materials even more than MM and it's a pig to remove (multiple soakings of hot water) should you want to do so.

But use whatever you feel most comfortable with, or can afford...  Matte medium is definitely on the expensive side for what it's used for.

Jeff

[peteski]

I have no horse in this race, but in my experience the reason things like matt paints or matt medium are . . . matt is because a flattening agent (some sort of fine powered material like talcum) is mixed into the liquid). If that flattening  agent settles down on the bottom of the container and is then separated from the liquid, the paint or matt medium end up with glossy finish.  Wouldn't that make the ballast look wet?

[JeffB]

I have no horse in this race, but in my experience the reason things like matt paints or matt medium are . . . matt is because a flattening agent (some sort of fine powered material like talcum) is mixed into the liquid). If that flattening  agent settles down on the bottom of the container and is then separated from the liquid, the paint or matt medium end up with glossy finish.  Wouldn't that make the ballast look wet?

You would think that and I would agree based on what I know about flat paints...  But it's not the case.  It's still matte when you take all the talc/calcium carbonate out of it.  Not sure exactly why, but it is.  Matte and gloss mediums behave differently.  Thin Gloss medium with water.  It loses it's glossiness.  (the same is true of other water based gloss finishes)

I've confirmed that it stays flat when laying the flextrack itself.  I put the flextrack over cork roadbed and flow water thin CA in-between ties every other inch or so to hold it in place.  Once all the track is down and I'm happy with it.  I flood the ties and rails with the 3:1 matte medium and let it dry.  No glossiness whatsoever and the track is remarkably well stuck down.

Jeff

[peteski]

Interesting . . . thanks Jeff!

[craigolio1]

I've found it'll do this with natural materials (sand, topsoil, fine crushed stone, etc...) if you apply way too much diluted matte medium.  But alternatively, other glues ("white glue" or any other type of water based/acrylic glue) do the same thing.

The key with matte medium...  I dilute it 3:1 with water.  Shake the heck out of it to mix.  Let it sit for a few weeks in a closed container, which will allow the solids to precipitate out and accumulate on the bottom of the container.  Decant the white liquid into another container.  What this will do is prevent your scenery or ballast from getting a white film on it if you really soak it with the diluted MM.  It's a trick that Dave Frary passed down to one of the E-lists I was on years ago.

After I decant the fluid into a clean container, I'll pour about 5% (by volume) of 91% or 99% Isopropyl Alcohol into the container.  This ensures that you have  absolutely no surface tension to the glue mix.  Don't do this prior to adding water to matte medium!

For use, spray the dry scenery materials with IPA to wet, then apply the dilute matte medium/alcohol mix with your preferred method.  You don't need to drown your scenery with it.  I've seen a lot of "how to's" that show guys putting down so much that there's puddles of white fluid everywhere.  Matte medium, even diluted is a strong and flexible adhesive.  Apply enough that the material has a slight white haze after putting it down, then stop.

You can lighten darkened soils with powdered chalk/pastels, but for track it'll alter the color of the ties and rails as well if you're sloppy with it.

One way to get around this darkening is to choose a material that's slightly lighter so that when it does get darker, it's close to the final color you're looking for.

Jeff

Wow that’s awesome!

Thanks Jeff.