Decided on ESU Nano - but which one?

[Bill H]

My layout is finally nearing main track completion. I have delayed purchasing sound decoders as I always assumed that the technology would continue to evolve. I am now ready to make a significant purchase of ESU Loksound 5 Nanos - but need some input between the two, specifically Loksound 5 Nano 58925 (e24 connector) and 58928 (next 18 connector). I have no problems doing the installs, I have installed a variety of hard wired non sound decoders in the past, but need to upgrade my fleet now to sound and want to standardize as much as reasonable.

I will be installing these in a variety of different steam tenders from EM-1s to KATO Mikes to LL 0-8-0s. Preferences and experiences?

Kind regards,
Bill

[Bill H]

After a bit of review, perhaps I should only be considering the LokSound 5 Nano 58923 with the E-24 hard wire connectors?

Kind regards,
Bill

[GM50 4164]

Bill, I would suggest going with the 58923 for use in wired installs. The board with the wires can be removed if needed for use in the newer Atlas releases and Scale Trains that use it. The one with Next 18 would be used in the Atlas SD45 and the Broadway Stealth released items.

[Dwight in Toronto]

It sounds like your focus is on steam locomotives with tenders.  I can suggest an alternative ESU decoder for your consideration.

I’ve equipped four steam locos with ESU 58731 decoders - Kato GS4, Model Power 4-6-2, Dapol 4-6-0 Hall class, and a tiny Dapol 0-6-0 Terrier.  The tenders readily accomodate the 58731 and a speaker (the Terrier is a tank engine, so I used a tarp-covered wagon for the decoder and speaker, tethered to the loco … there’s a build thread on TRW somewhere).

The 58731 is intended for Kato Japan drop-in applications, and its 3 powered Aux outputs are usually more than adequate for steam loco LED requirements.  It was, of course, an ideal drop-in for the Kato GS4, and enabled me to separately illuminate each of the over/under headlamps, as well as the reversing light in the tender.

For the other locos, the 58731 was lightly modified to fit by trimming back the two “arms”, which are the solder points for track (black & red) and motor (orange & grey) wire leads.  It’s a versatile little decoder, and worthy of a look-see!

[jdcolombo]

There are a variety of ESU decoders that will work fine in virtually all steam tenders.  I've used the Nano (24) pin on the 0-8-0 and would recommend it for the smallest tenders, including the Kato Mike.  For larger tenders, the Loksound 5 Micro DCC wired version works very well, and I like the shorter wire connection board for some reason.  Just seems more elegant to me. 

But whatever you do, my VERY STRONG recommendation is that you add a commercial keep alive.  The TCS KA-1 will fit alongside the LokSound nano or Micro in nearly all tender installs (except for the 0-8-0 - see my thread on that installation from a couple weeks ago).  N-scale steam locomotives still do not have perfect electrical conductivity, and without a keep alive, you'll have sound drop-outs with even clean track and wheels.  If you look at my steam installation threads, you'll see how I have positioned a KA-1 on its side next to a LokSound 5 Micro at the back of the tender (with a speaker in front) in everything from a Kato Mike on up (though this usually requires stripping out everything - and I mean EVERYTHING - that's already in the tender).

Do yourself a huge favor and add a KA-1 (or whatever will fit) to ALL your steam installs.

John C.

[Bill H]

Hi John;
Thank you for that input. Speaking of keep alive, do you prefer the KA-1 over the KA-N1 which seems much smaller. Or is the KA-N1 insufficient?

Kind regards,
Bill

[peteski]

KA-1 has 200,000µF* capacitance vs. about 1,000µF in KA-N1 
KA-1 should keep the model running for over 1 second where KA-N1 will only supply milliseconds of power to the decoder.
If there is enough room in the model (like a steam loco's tender), for reliable running it makes sense to stuff the biggest possible keep-alive module.

*That is the older KA-1 I have.  Looks like TCS has redesigned that item but I suspect the current version has a similar capacitance rating. Unfortunately TCS does not provide this type of technical specs. Only way to find out it to remove the heat-shrink and look at the actual components.

[Bill H]

Pete:
You are spot on, the KA-N-1 Output Rating: 10V DC (Max); 1000uF but I can find nothing on the KA-1.

Frankly, the small version was tempting from both a size and cost perspective, but if it is insufficient than it is not a viable option. I had been thinking of wiring in some small caps as many others have done. Thoughts either way?

Kind regards,
Bill
 

[jdcolombo]

I've used the current version of the KA-1 on virtually every steam conversion I've done in the past two years: LifeLike Berks; BLI Mikes; Kato Mikes; Bachmann Consolidation; Bachmann 2-6-0; ConCor/Kato Hudson (NYC-style tender); etc.  Only the 0-8-0 didn't have room - in that one, I used 3 220uf tantalum polymer caps in parallel, which seemed to work fine for avoiding sound drop-outs/restarts.

I wouldn't mess with caps if a TCS KA-1 (the regular KA-1, not the KA-1N) will fit.  And it WILL fit in nearly every steam tender.

John C.

[peteski]

Pete:
You are spot on, the KA-N-1 Output Rating: 10V DC (Max); 1000uF but I can find nothing on the KA-1.

Frankly, the small version was tempting from both a size and cost perspective, but if it is insufficient than it is not a viable option. I had been thinking of wiring in some small caps as many others have done. Thoughts either way?

Kind regards,
Bill

I'm really surprised at that 10V DC (max) rating.  Most N scale DCC boosters supply 13V or more and that ends up being higher than 11V DC inside the decoder.  Tantalum capacitors are quite sensitive to over-voltage and they fail in spectacular pyrotechnic display.  I wonder if the capacitors in KA-N1 themselves are rated 10V but there is also additional circuitry built-in to limit the decoder's internal DC voltage to 10V at the capacitors.

Any added keep-alive will be helpful, but with N scale steam locos where electric pickup is not as reliable as in diesels (even if the track and wheels are clean), it makes sense to stuff as large of a keep-alive unit as possible.

[jdcolombo]

Hi Bill.

I realized just now that I didn't directly answer your question on KA-1 vs. KA-1N vs. caps
If at all possible, use a regular KA-1.  It will not only prevent sound restarts/dropouts, but also prevent loco stalls as long as your wheels and track are relatively clean.  If a KA-1 just won't fit (and there are VERY few of these situations; the Walthers/LL 0-8-0 is one, however), then use the KA-1N or a minimum of 660uf of caps to cut down on the sound restarts/dropouts that you'll otherwise experience.

In nearly all steam tenders, you can fit a LokSound Nano or Micro next to a KA-1 on its side at the back of the tender and still have room for a speaker in front, mounted either cross-ways or long-ways.  Again, take a look at these steam installation threads and you'll see what I mean:
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=48870.0 (Bachmann 10-wheeler)
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=48510.0  (BLI Mike - I actually squeezed a KA-3 in this one, but today I'd use a KA-1)
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=49829.0 (Walthers/LL Berkshire)

John C.