Is Japanese Z scale...

[sirenwerks]

I know Japanese N scale is 1:150 compared to US/Euro 1:160 but does that mean Japanese Z scale is 1:200 compared to the US/Euro 1:220?

[Chris333]

I think they use metric 

[McKeen]

Z Scale is 1:220 the world over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_scale#:~:text=Z%20scale%20is%20one%20of%20the%20smallest%20commercially,as%20all%20other%20two-rail%2C%20direct-current%2C%20analog%20model%20railways.

[peteski]

Z Scale is 1:220 the world over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_scale#:~:text=Z%20scale%20is%20one%20of%20the%20smallest%20commercially,as%20all%20other%20two-rail%2C%20direct-current%2C%20analog%20model%20railways.

Interesting.  Excellent question.  If the 1:220 is true all over the world, it means that the 6mm gauge represents standard gauge, which in Japan is used for the Shinkansen (bullet) trains, where most local trains run on narrow gauge.  So only Shinkansen can be properly scaled.

[sirenwerks]

Z Scale is 1:220 the world over.

Respectfully, I am not convinced of that and am hoping to find some respectable reference where it is documented (preferably a Japanese source).  The gauge may be consistent, but not scale.


For instance, their are numerous references online to the European manufacture Preiser having 1:200 scale figures. Preiser doesn't list any Z scale figures on its website to verify the scale, unfortunately, but AJC still shows an airport figure set in 1:200, and AJC is pretty thorough with its website information. There are plenty of aircraft and ship models in 1:200 so there's a market external to model trains.


It just doesn't make sense for Japanese Z scale to be 1:220 if it's N scale is 1:150 and its HO scale is 1:80.

[peteski]

As I understand it, 1:200 scale is also used for producing architectural models.  That is why, for example, Plastruct produces a range of architectural type of items  (while no items in 1:160 or 1:220 scales).

[nkalanaga]

Off-topic, but Z gauge, 6.5 mm, would be perfect for Japanese N scale 1:160.  Apparently nobody has made mass-produced 42 inch gauge N scale, but the prototype gauge is common around the world.

[masaaki_tsuji]

Hello all,

The only company currently producing Z-gauge model trains in Japan is Rokuhan, which uses the 1:220 scale. In the past, several manufacturers produced Z-gauge model trains, but most of them used 1:220 scale. However, a very few manufacturers released Z scale brass kits in 1:200 scale, but they did not last long.

In Japan, model trains using Z-gauge tracks in the Japanese N scale are called Nj-gauge, and have a certain number of enthusiasts. Z-gauge tracks are also used for N-scale narrow gauge. In the United States, it is called Nn3 gauge, and in Europe, Nm gauge, but in Japan, N-narrow is more commonly used.

Masaaki TSUJI

[peteski]

Hello all,

The only company currently producing Z-gauge model trains in Japan is Rokuhan, which uses the 1:220 scale. In the past, several manufacturers produced Z-gauge model trains, but most of them used 1:220 scale. However, a very few manufacturers released Z scale brass kits in 1:200 scale, but they did not last long.

In Japan, model trains using Z-gauge tracks in the Japanese N scale are called Nj-gauge, and have a certain number of enthusiasts. Z-gauge tracks are also used for N-scale narrow gauge. In the United States, it is called Nn3 gauge, and in Europe, Nm gauge, but in Japan, N-narrow is more commonly used.

Masaaki TSUJI

Thank you Masaaki san,
But to me that still unclear.  According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan, majority of Japanese trains run on narrow 1,067 mm (3 ft 6 in) gauge, and that is what the 1:150 scale Japanese N gauge (9mm track) represents.  Second most popular track gauge in Japan is "standard gauge", or 1,435 mm (4 ft 8+1⁄2 in).  I believe that Japanese N gauge models of the Shinkansen trains, are also using 9mm track, but are scaled to 1:160.  Is this accurate?

Going to Z scale (6.5mm track gauge), you mention that models of Japanese prototype are made in 1:220 scale. But are those models of Japanese narrow (1,067 mm) gauge prototypes or of standard (1,435 mm) prototypes?  Since I have never seen any Z scale models of Shinkansen, I guess that Japanese Z scale models depict the narrow gauge prototype.  If you were to scale  down 1,067 mm to 1:220  (1067/220=4.85) the track gauge would have to be 4.85mm (not 6.5mm).

Actually, if the Japanese Z gauge models represent Japanese narrow gauge track are running on 6.5mm tracks, the scale will be 1067/6.5=164.2 (close to 1:160 scale).

I'm still confused.

[masaaki_tsuji]

Hello Peteski,

As you wrote, most Japanese N scale models are 1/150, and only Shinkansen is 1/160. Some private railways use standard gauge, and their cars are also modeled in 1/150. The Nj gauge in Japan was started by enthusiasts who wanted to express the "narrow gauge" of 1067mm gauge railroads in N scale, 7.1mm gauge rails to be exact, but since 7.1mm gauge rails are not commercially available, 6.5mm gauge rails in Z scale are commonly used.

In Z scale, Rokuhan is producing the Shinkansen Series 500, and Rokuhan has declared to model all cars in 1/220 scale, both Shinkansen and non-Shinkansen cars. For Z-scale Shinkansen products, search for "Shinkansen" at the following page: https://www.rokuhan.com/products/train/

Masaaki TSUJI

[sirenwerks]

Hello Peteski,

As you wrote, most Japanese N scale models are 1/150, and only Shinkansen is 1/160. Some private railways use standard gauge, and their cars are also modeled in 1/150. The Nj gauge in Japan was started by enthusiasts who wanted to express the "narrow gauge" of 1067mm gauge railroads in N scale, 7.1mm gauge rails to be exact, but since 7.1mm gauge rails are not commercially available, 6.5mm gauge rails in Z scale are commonly used.

In Z scale, Rokuhan is producing the Shinkansen Series 500, and Rokuhan has declared to model all cars in 1/220 scale, both Shinkansen and non-Shinkansen cars. For Z-scale Shinkansen products, search for "Shinkansen" at the following page: https://www.rokuhan.com/products/train/

Masaaki TSUJI

So this means the non-Shinkansen are not true to scale, since you can't have two gauges running on a single gauge track. I presume this means the non-Shinkansen models' bodies are stretched wide. Kinda like Atlas's N scale GP30 nose (snare roll, cymbal crash...)

[nkalanaga]

And like Japanese "N Scale" models of their narrow gauge trains that run on 9mm track.

[brill27mcb]

So this means the non-Shinkansen are not true to scale, since you can't have two gauges running on a single gauge track. I presume this means the non-[/size]Shinkansen models' bodies are stretched wide. Kinda like Atlas's N scale GP30 nose (snare roll, cymbal crash...)

Like many of us, you have been brainwashed, probably at a young age, by MR magazine and the NMRA to believe that you should always say and think "scale" and not "gauge." This was a reactionary distinction in the U.S. to separate early "model railroading" from Lionel and "toy trains." The international reality is that "N" is a gauge, not a scale. "N" originally stood for "neun" or nine, the number of millimeters between the rails. In America and Europe, we tend to use 1:160 as the scale we run on that gauge, but in Britain they tend to use 1:148 and in Japan both 1:150 and 1:160 are used depending on the gauge of the prototype (two scales on a single gauge).

Just change the way you view things, Grasshopper, and all will become clear and logical.   

Rich K.

[sirenwerks]

I wrote to someone I had exchanged emails with some time ago, who works at Rokuhan, and he confirmed Rokuhan models are 1:220. Curiously, he mentioned that Rokuhan will be releasing a Z scale (1:220), properly gauged, Shinkansen line in the 3rd quarter of 2023.

[peteski]

I wrote to someone I had exchanged emails with some time ago, who works at Rokuhan, and he confirmed Rokuhan models are 1:220. Curiously, he mentioned that Rokuhan will be releasing a Z scale (1:220), properly gauged, Shinkansen line in the 3rd quarter of 2023.

Well, 1435mm/220=6.5mm, so yes, a standard gauge (1435mm) train running on 6.5mm gauge track is naturally in 1:220 scale.
But if all the other Japanese Z scale models which depict narrow gauge  (1067mm) prototype and run on 6.5mm gauge track *MUST* be (1067/6.5=164) 1:164 scale. There are no ifs and buts about it. 

For Japanese narrow gauge's models scaled 1:220, the track gauge would have to be (1067/220=4.85) 4.85mm (sub-Z).  Again. math doesn't lie.

Actually, even the Japanese N scale math is not quite accurate.  1067/9=118.56, so narrow gauge models of Japanese prototype running on 9mm gauge track are scaled 1:118.5.  The 1:150 thing is another scale "pulled out of a hat". 

Or is my math incorrect? Or manufacturers are doing some serious fudging in proportions of their models?