LifeLike SW1200 - Suggestions for DCC/Sound “Tender”

[Dwight in Toronto]

I wasn’t sure which Railwire category would be the best fit for this topic.  It really doesn’t have much to do with placement/hookup/functionality of the decoder/speaker package, and is truly more of a locomotive/rolling stock issue, so thought I’d put it under General Discussion. 

There are several excellent tutorials highlighting LifeLike SW1200 sound decoder installs elsewhere on this forum.  I have studied them intently, and continually conclude that the admirable work of others is just too intricate for me to tackle. 

Instead, I am leaning towards putting the decoder and speaker within a piece of rolling stock that would be permanently tethered to the little switcher.  I have an ESU Nano on-hand, and plenty of ESU’s wonderful-to-work-with, highly flexible decoder wire to run between the two. 

And as far as wiring goes, suffice to say that orange, gray, red & black are a given, as well as blue & white for the front headlight.  I’d really like a functioning rear lamp as well (so that’s a yellow wire), and ideally, I think a rotary beacon up top would be a fun-to-have (green wire).  So, a minimum of 6 wires, maximum of 8.  Not sure, but that might be a bit much with respect to the “tethering”, in that a sizeable bundle of wires may well adversely impact operability … comments/opinions?

Finally, I would really appreciate suggestions from folks on what types of rolling stock might make for a prototypically realistic, permanently attached companion piece of equipment for a small switcher like this?   

Looking forward to hearing back; thanks in advance for any & all input!

[Jim Starbuck]

Hi Dwight,

My suggestion would be instead of tethering a car to the switcher just make a stand alone sound car with the Nano and speaker in it and put a Lokpilot 59820 Micro or a Digitrax plug in decoder in the engine. Program the sound car to the same address as the engine so the sound matches movement.
I made a sound car from a bay window caboose as a companion to the powered American crane and it works nicely. The caboose would also be a logical companion to the switcher as well.
Kato produced a nice little cupola caboose and it already has electrically live trucks to make sound installation even easier. I did solder a 1k resistor between the motor leads on the Nano to simulate a motor load but other than that it’s standard fare sound install.

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Hope this gives you some ideas,

Jim

[jdcolombo]

Instead of a dedicated piece of rolling stock, have you considered a "dummy" engine?  I don't know what a LL SW1200 goes for on the used market today, but if they were relatively cheap, I could imaging taking one, stripping out the motor and drivetrain and using the space inside for a sound decoder and speaker; there might even be enough room for a commercial keep-alive like a TCS KA-1 which would be a huge help for electrical pickup given the weight of these engines.  Then permanently couple the engines back-to-back, like the prototype would have, and run a wiring harness (six wires: motor, track pickup and front light) to the powered engine.  If you use the ESU decoder wire to do the wiring harness, the wires are so thin and flexible that they will look like MU hoses once you've painted them black (or just use six runs of black wire).

I've always resisted the idea of a "sound car" because it's just not prototypically realistic to have the same car attached to the switcher, particularly if you are doing run-around moves for switching purposes.  But a dummy engine solves the problem because that arrangement IS prototypically correct and it won't look weird when doing run-around moves.

John C.

[Dwight in Toronto]

Argh!  Two great suggestions, from two guys who really know this stuff!  Which way to go?!

The switcher already has a very small TCS decoder in it which I installed maybe 10 or 12 years ago, so that would make me lean towards the sound-car option.  However, that decoder has been acting up lately, and it’s also the only loco in my roster that has yet to join its ESU brethren, so that sways me towards the dummy diesel suggestion. 

There’s a train show happening in my neck of the woods in a couple of weeks, so I’ll see if there are any bargain LifeLike, Bachmann, or whatever switchers to be found. 

Thanks guys.

[Jim Starbuck]

The LifeLike dummy diesel is an excellent idea but I would still make it a stand alone sound unit without tethering as I don’t see an advantage to them being connected. Are you thinking better track pickup? You can still do the additional lighting effects you want with independent units.
Without the motor there is plenty of room for a Nano than the speaker in the cab and possibly some added weight. I would highly recommend an Iowa Scaled Engineering Run-N-Smooth powerkeeper in both units as it’s quite small but still has plenty of capacitance. Advantage is that the LokProgrammer can see through the powerkeeper allowing for changes without having to disconnect the capacitors.

[brokemoto]

I do not use DCC, but the idea of a dummy or a "B" unit (if the Canadian roads had any SW-B-units) might be the best bet.  This is particullarly the case if you want to run your switcher on the road and not just use it in the yards.  If it is going to be strictly for yard or station service, you would get away with hardwiring it to a fifty foot box car, an electrically live caboose (such as Kato's) a baggage car (for a station switcher) or express car (again, for a station switcher). Your better bet might be to hardwire it to an electrically live dummy.

I have managed to improve the performance of several smaller locomotives by hardwiring them to Kato JNR brakemen's vans.  With a little surgery , those things can pass for a North American industrial hack.  Kato does sell several electrically live JNR brakemen's vans.  Those would not meet Original Poster's requirements, but the Kato electrically live North American center cupola caboose might.

The easiest would be to find a basket case LL SW.  If you want a B unit, you simply remove the cab, do a little work to what remains on the Number  Two end and you will have one.  C-C sold an SW and a "B" unit.  You could look for  a basket case unit with a cab, as that was the powered thus it will be electrically live.  The "B" unit that C-C sold, the "calf" is not electrically live.  It does not roll well, either.  Finally, the C-C SWs have a funny roof.

A basket case Kato or B-mann NW-2 might be more difficult to find. 

I had some basket case LL SWs but I sold them  long past on FeePay.  You might try FeePay to see if anyone there has a basket case SW/NW for a reasonable price.  Some of the prices there for Junque and  equipment not up to to-day's standards are crazy, but, if you keep looking, you might find something worth the bother.

[reinhardtjh]

One thing to remember if you go the dummy with no connection to the "real" loco is that any feedback to the decoder that BEMF (or any other feedback from having a motor tied to the output rather than a fixed resistor) would provide for controlling the engine sounds would be lost.  Perhaps not a big deal in a switcher though as the loads are probably lighter than running a mainline drag.

[peteski]

One thing to remember if you go the dummy with no connection to the "real" loco is that any feedback to the decoder that BEMF (or any other feedback from having a motor tied to the output rather than a fixed resistor) would provide for controlling the engine sounds would be lost.  Perhaps not a big deal in a switcher though as the loads are probably lighter than running a mainline drag.

Using resistor as a load for motor output would require rather hefty resistor which would generate a lot of heat.  Yes, one can say to turn down the max speed as low as as possible (which would minimize the power dissipated on the resistor), but I don't trust that method.  What if that CV gets mangled and you are unaware of it.  We know that it can happen. Suddenly you have a loco with a melted shell or other plastic part.

Then of course is the inability to control the engine sound properly.

If (as demonstrated on TRW) a sound decoder can be shoehorned in the tiny Bachmann 44-tonner, fitting one in a SW1200 should be doable too.    

To me this thread indubitably  (and like its subject line says) belongs in the DCC section of the forum. Even if a decoder was not mounted in a loco, it is a still a DCC related question.   

[jdcolombo]

The LifeLike dummy diesel is an excellent idea but I would still make it a stand alone sound unit without tethering as I don’t see an advantage to them being connected. Are you thinking better track pickup? You can still do the additional lighting effects you want with independent units.
Without the motor there is plenty of room for a Nano than the speaker in the cab and possibly some added weight. I would highly recommend an Iowa Scaled Engineering Run-N-Smooth powerkeeper in both units as it’s quite small but still has plenty of capacitance. Advantage is that the LokProgrammer can see through the powerkeeper allowing for changes without having to disconnect the capacitors.

Hi Jim.

I was mostly thinking about better electrical pickup.  Switchers have notorious pickup issues because they just aren't heavy enough, although if you fill up the cab with tungsten putty or lead it helps a lot.  But a better solution is a real commercial keep alive.  I wasn't aware that there was a commercial keep alive that would fit in the LL cab, but I figured one would fit in an empty dummy unit.  The "wired" dummy also avoids a separate decoder in the powered unit, but it does complicate wiring since you have to run wires between the two.   

I've never tried to run an ESU decoder without a motor connection.  Do you lose anything from a sound-control standpoint with not having a motor connection?  If not, and there is a keep alive solution that would work in the powered unit, then I'd probably go with a LokPilot micro and keep alive in the powered unit and make the dummy a separate sound unit with its own keep-alive, as you suggest.   Simpler wiring, and then the two units aren't permanently connected, which makes for easier servicing and troubleshooting should that be necessary.

John C.

[Jim Starbuck]

John,

The Iowa Scaled Engineering powerkeeper is small enough to reside where the stock light board was in the LifeLike switcher. While not described as a keep alive it has 940 uF capacitance which keeps LEDs from flickering and sound from dropping out over minor hiccups. It’s a simple two wire connection. The worst thing about using the ISE with a LokPilot Micro is connecting the ground wire to the super tiny pad on the decoder.

For my sound car using a Nano, I soldered a 1k 1/4 watt resistor between the motor leads and it works. It not a very good example however because the sound file is an obnoxious 471 Detroit 2 cycle diesel. Without the resistor the sound would start, idle and throttle up but wouldn’t idle back down. With the resistor it acts normally. I put the Nano in a crew car bay window caboose to accompany the powered American crane but I stopped running them together at shows because everyone asked what mechanism I used in the caboose assuming that’s what was pulling the crane instead of the crane pushing the caboose.
As far as a dummy switcher, I would hardwire the truck pickups to the decoder and either put the speaker in the cab or keep the cab weight and make the fuel tank the speaker enclosure like I’ve done on my powered calf units.

Jim

[tehachapifan]

In my area when the SP still operated a branchline, it was common practice for the solo SW1500 to have a caboose attached to it. I think this is where any extra crew rode. There was a section of street running through town where the caboose would sometimes even lead.

When I first got into doing N scale sound, I put sound decoders in a couple N scale bay window cabooses and drug them around with my kitbashed (non-sound) SW1500's. The speaker is also in the caboose, but I toyed with the idea of putting the speaker in the loco cab with wires running from the caboose. I put MRC sound-only decoders in them before I switched to ESU and Zimo sound decoders. As such, I don't run them much anymore but will break them out every now and then for a chuckle.

I will say that, when putting a sound decoder in an N scale car, sound dropouts could be more of an issue. This is due to the car probably being a bit too light and because of the way the electrical pickup system has to be arranged with axle wipers (at least with my installs).

[Dwight in Toronto]

So much good info from everyone - much appreciated. 

I’m leaning towards staying with a single ESU Nano decoder, which I already have on-hand.  And I think I could be just as satisfied with either a Kato caboose or a dummy switcher to accommodate the dcc/sound components, which implies the tethering approach. 

Fingers crossed that something suitable might be sourced at one of the upcoming shows.  I’ll revisit the prospect of keep-alives etc. once the prerequisite equipment is sourced.  I’ll report back if/as/when this little project proceeds.

[learmoia]

Wait for Atlas to redesign the drive for sound. 

[nkalanaga]

Use a slug!  The NP did, for Pasco hump service. It needs power and control cables/hoses, so "hiding" the wires would be simple.

[Dwight in Toronto]

Hmmm …. “use a slug” …. I LIKE that - a LOT, actually! 

Still need to find a ‘donor’ switcher though.