Author Topic: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?  (Read 437 times)

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ednadolski

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Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« on: January 16, 2023, 07:45:19 PM »
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After a couple of print fails from firing up my Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k for the first time (only the first time!! it's been months that it has just sat since I got it!!  :facepalm:) I was wondering what could be the cause.  It is also the first time I've ever used a WhamBam flexible magnetic plate, which seemed like a good idea considering that I had read how difficult it can be to remove a print from the build plate that comes with this machine.  The failures I get are that when a print completes and the plate comes up out of the resin vat, there is nothing at all on the build plate itself (beyond the usual bits of uncured liquid resin).  Instead, on the FEP film there is a thin layer of cured resin in the shape of the base/raft for the print.  It seems like the issue is that the WhamBam plate may simple be too smooth for the resin to stick to it enough for it to print correctly.  Is it a good idea (required?) to rough up the build plate with some sandpaper before use?  Has anyone ever done this, and did you use any specific grit, or cleaning method, etc. ...?

(I'm presuming that roughing up the steel  WhamBam plate will not lead to any issues deplating the print, since that relies on the flexibility of the plate rather than its surface composition.)

Thanks in Advance,
Ed

samusi01

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2023, 07:58:01 PM »
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Zero height set on the plate? I have had similar issues when the plate isn't zeroed. Very first print job, as a matter of fact; nice little circles on the FEP. Redid the zeroing and round two resulted in two perfectly printed castles.

Erock482

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2023, 08:14:06 PM »
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Definitely sounds like you need to re-level the plate, and possible increase bottom layer times.

It will help immensely if we know what kind of printer you're using, the current print settings, and a picture of what you're trying to print in the slicer software.

ednadolski

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2023, 01:35:37 AM »
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I re-level the plate for every print.   As I mentioned it is a Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k. I use all the default settings with Phrozen's Aqua Grey 8k resin.  Two different .cab files so far, I will see if I can find the USB that has the test print file on it.

@samusi01 were you using the factory build plate, or a 3rd-party like the whambam?
Ed

« Last Edit: January 17, 2023, 01:37:49 AM by ednadolski »

Sokramiketes

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2023, 09:42:39 AM »
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Try it once without the trick plate.  It's not that bad removing items from the solid build plate.  I usually use a single edge razor blade. 

If you get everything working, then you can try difference accessories. 

samusi01

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2023, 09:56:33 AM »
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@samusi01 were you using the factory build plate, or a 3rd-party like the whambam?

Factory plate: Elegoo included a handy putty knife for removing items from the build plate. I've not had to re-level the build plates very often; I have a pair of build plates and simply swap on completion of the print job. One thing I did find was that if I followed the Elegoo instructions precisely, they left the plate too far off the FEP; eliminating one step in the instructions has resulted in no issues with any prints.

Lemosteam

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2023, 12:45:59 PM »
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Try it once without the trick plate.  It's not that bad removing items from the solid build plate.  I usually use a single edge razor blade. 

If you get everything working, then you can try difference accessories.

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^  Once you break the capillary seal around the print, the print will pop right off the build plate.  Just do it over a soft surface after draining the part and plate back into the vat.

I refuse to get a magnetic plate due to the potential thickness variation it can create, just removing and reinstalling the thing.  It just seems, well, stupid for lack of a better word when you are trying to print in micromillimeter increments (even if releveled each print). 

I have also heard rumors that WhamBam is having issues with their current magnet and new plates are being issued with "better" magnets.

Resin changes over time as well, it thickens and actually has a shelf life.  Most of my Facebook reading has indicated that resin temp has as much to do with failed prints as does exposure.

haasmarc

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2023, 11:10:53 PM »
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I have a Sonic Mini 8k and I also use a razor blade to remove prints.  Usually after getting under 2 sides, the prints just pops off.  I got these small plastic blade holders from ACE hardware and they work pretty well.

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/paint-and-supplies/painting-tools-and-supplies/paint-scrapers/1572361

Marc Haas
Keeping the Reading alive in N scale!

AlwaysSolutions

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2023, 02:41:04 AM »
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I'll throw in an endorsement for razor blades, too - with a twist.  I got a new printer with those laser etched build plates that make everything grip too well.  I was breaking things trying to get them off the plate.  A far cry from yester-year.  Anyway, flex plates won't work with my workflow but I had heard some folks talking about the plastic razor blades working really well.  So I splurged ten whole bucks to try them and they work great!  Two plastic holders and 120 plastic blades.  I use them to pop a corner/s with very little effort then finish the job with a spare plastic spatula.  Haven't had to replace any yet after 30 or so uses.  And no worries scratching up the build plate now.  I'm glad I tried them as I've determined this is a tool I needed.  Wonder if they'd do that well with an FDM printer? Hmmm...

-Mike

Lemosteam

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2023, 09:44:02 AM »
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I'll throw in an endorsement for razor blades, too - with a twist.  I got a new printer with those laser etched build plates that make everything grip too well.  I was breaking things trying to get them off the plate.  A far cry from yester-year.  Anyway, flex plates won't work with my workflow but I had heard some folks talking about the plastic razor blades working really well.  So I splurged ten whole bucks to try them and they work great!  Two plastic holders and 120 plastic blades.  I use them to pop a corner/s with very little effort then finish the job with a spare plastic spatula.  Haven't had to replace any yet after 30 or so uses.  And no worries scratching up the build plate now.  I'm glad I tried them as I've determined this is a tool I needed.  Wonder if they'd do that well with an FDM printer? Hmmm...

-Mike

@AlwaysSolutions Link for the plastic razor blades please?  I have never seen them.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 09:45:33 AM by Lemosteam »

Sokramiketes

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2023, 10:11:30 AM »
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Factory plate: Elegoo included a handy putty knife for removing items from the build plate. I've not had to re-level the build plates very often; I have a pair of build plates and simply swap on completion of the print job. One thing I did find was that if I followed the Elegoo instructions precisely, they left the plate too far off the FEP; eliminating one step in the instructions has resulted in no issues with any prints.

Interesting, is this the level it on top of a piece of paper step?

I print most of my stuff right on the plate to avoid supports.  Things like gondola sides, or baggage doors, or things that work really well flat on the plate.  But then you have to be careful getting them off since you're not prying a raft or junk portion of the print.  That's where the razor blade worked best for me. 

AlwaysSolutions

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2023, 11:42:31 AM »
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@AlwaysSolutions Link for the plastic razor blades please?  I have never seen them.

These are the kind I got: https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Scraper-Scratch-proof-Cleaning-Stickers/dp/B09798Y9ZV  They come in several package combos - this one comes with three handles and is cheaper than what I got.

Mike

Erock482

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2023, 09:10:03 PM »
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Ed, For what it's worth I really like the wham bam plates on my now two mono X's, Assuming plate has been re-leveled. Have you tried lightly sanding the flex plate? I had to do that on a couple of mine so they'd bite.

samusi01

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2023, 12:27:53 AM »
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Interesting, is this the level it on top of a piece of paper step?

Yes. They say one should adjust the height to ensure the paper can (slightly) move… I don’t bother to do that any more. 

JeffB

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Re: Print failures -- possibly the WhamBam Plate?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2023, 06:39:20 AM »
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I print most of my stuff right on the plate to avoid supports.  Things like gondola sides, or baggage doors, or things that work really well flat on the plate.  But then you have to be careful getting them off since you're not prying a raft or junk portion of the print.  That's where the razor blade worked best for me.

I print a bunch of things right on the build plate too (no supports).  When I'm concerned about damaging the print trying to get it off, I add a small connected and sacrificial tab onto one or two sides of the part to pry on.  That way if something is going to be damaged, it'll be part of the print that gets removed and discarded.

Works well and only uses a small amount of extra resin per print.

Jeff