Arnold Talgo passenger car compatibility

[nickelplate759]

I'm still trying to approximate the Amtrak Cascades Talgo VI train.   I have the Electrotren cars in their trial Amtrak scheme (circa 1997) but noticed that these current Arnold cars are actually closer to many of the coaches (5 windows per side).
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Does anyone know if these can couple with the older Electrotren cars?
<edit> yes they can, see below </edit>

[nickelplate759]

I found a photo of the end coupling of the Arnold cars - they look identical to the Electrotren cars I have, so I'm going to buy a few Arnold cars and see what happens!

[nickelplate759]

Got the cars in, and they match the older Electrotren cars in profile and coupling, so mix-and-match is a go!
Next challenge is wheels.  The Arnold wheelsets are narrow in gauge (easily fixed), insulated one side, 1.5mm axles, and have .035" flanges, which is  little deep.  They also don't look all that great.

My first thought was to replace them, but they have .593" long axles.  I've never found replacement wheelsets with such long axles.  I tried Fox Valley .576" and they kind of work, but are a little loose as one would expect.  I don't have a layout available just now for a proper test of tracking with such wheels.

The prototype has 35.4" (not a typo - Talgo's docs say 2' 11.4" - really 900 mm) wheels - so 36" is close enough.  Anyone know of replacement 36" wheelsets with .593" axles?
I can think of several ways to fix this (simplest is probably NWSL wheels on the existing Arnold axles), but replacement would be easiest.

[nkalanaga]

If all else fails, you can turn the flanges easily with a hand drill and needle file.  With the wheels already out of gauge, there's nothing to lose.  Push the insulated wheel close to the uninsulated one, so there's room to chuck the axle in the drill.  Then, with an NMRA gauge handy, carefully file each flange to shape.  Unless you plan on running them on code 40 flextrack, there's no need to go too small, so just file them down enough to work, and round the new corners.  Then regauge the wheelsets.

[peteski]

I think that 900mm diameter wheels were (or even are) usually used on European passenger equipment.

I wonder if you could use Kato diesel wheelsets.  I think those are 40". Since they are constructed with half-axles and plastic axle tubes, the half-axes could be pushed out to get the required axle length.  The the plastic gears could be cut away with a pair of cutters.
Or how about Kato passenger wheelsets?  Those also have half-axles and I think are 36".

I'm also thinking that the extra inside width of the truck frames (and using Kato wheelsets) provides an opportunity to make them all pick up electricity for smooth running or illumination.  Just buy some Kato passenger trucks then use the axle cups in the Talgo set.

And as a side note,  few years back there was an eBay seller from Germany selling a wide range of replacement wheelsets for European models.  Eventually they stopped selling on eBay and started their own website.  I was planning on buying bunch to replace some really crappy wheels on some of my European models.   But I waited too long.  That website is also gone (and so is the opportunity to get those wheelsets).   

[nkalanaga]

If they have 1.5 mm axles, you can buy just the wheels from Northwest Short Line, in a variety of diameters.  Standard American N scale wheels are "64 tread", and you can also get "50 tread" if you want smaller flanges.  They make N scale 36 inch wheels as stock items, so that wouldn't be a problem.

The easiest way to change them would be to use two insulated wheels, but if you need electrical pickup, they also sell uninsulated.  The insulated wheels require separate insulated bushings, which aren't expensive.

I ordered a bunch of HOn3 26 inch 64-tread wheels and bushings for upgrading an ancient Arnold/Rapido FA, and they worked fine.

[nickelplate759]

Spreading Kato passenger wheelsets is a darned good idea.

I had already thought about the NWSL wheels, and checked the price.  it's now $2 per wheel. Plus the bushings.  Ouch!
They do look better than the Kato wheels however.

[nickelplate759]

I disassembled a car last night, to see how I can strip and paint them.  They're pretty simple - shell, snap-in floor, suspension/wheel assembly, window inserts.
Unfortunately, the window inserts are glued in.     I hate that  - it's awfully hard to get them out without damaging something.

[nkalanaga]

$2.00/wheel is what I paid in May 2019, so they haven't raised the price recently.

I wouldn't use these for a fleet, but for small projects, it isn't that bad.  After all, they have to package them for each order, unlike mass-market wheelset makers.  It's all hand work.

[nickelplate759]

$2.00/wheel is what I paid in May 2019, so they haven't raised the price recently.

I wouldn't use these for a fleet, but for small projects, it isn't that bad.  After all, they have to package them for each order, unlike mass-market wheelset makers.  It's all hand work.

and each car has only one axle, so it's $4/car + 1 bushing (which are pretty cheap).  So it won't break the bank, even with the 20 or so cars I want to do.

[peteski]

Unfortunately, the window inserts are glued in.     I hate that  - it's awfully hard to get them out without damaging something.

Yes, I'm also spoiled by Kato's excellent engineering, and no-glue constructions.  Tomix alo makes their models like that too.  Other contemporary manufacturers? Not so much Some older Minitrix and Arnold European passenger cars were also all-snap construction.  It takes some advanced thinking and design to make them like that.  Using glue is an easy way out.

[nkalanaga]

If you're insulating both sides, you'll need a bushing for each wheel. 

If only one side, you'll need two types of wheels.  The loco I converted had insulated wheels on both sides, with wipers on the wheel backs, so all of my wheels were the same.

[nickelplate759]

A quick experiment demonstrated that a Kato passenger-car 36" wheelset is easily adapted to these cars, and looks far better than the original.  Yes, the axles need to be extended to reach the target length, but that's easily done.   A $1.00 per wheelset (and one wheelset per car), this is far and away the cheapest, as well as the easiest, solution - I just ordered enough for 2 trains!

[peteski]

Excellent!



Which Kato part number did you use?

[NSEGeorge]

And if you run into real trouble, you can just buy the real thing:

https://procurement.amtrak.com/irj/portal/anonymous?NavigationTarget=navurl://657dcf8144611460ea595ba390290ecd&InitialNodeFirstLevel=true