Author Topic: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....  (Read 704 times)

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robert3985

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A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« on: November 04, 2021, 03:00:27 PM »
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Believe it or not, I am doing a PRR project and need some information since I am nearly a complete blank when it comes to the Pennsy.

(1) Pennsy painted its diesels in either of two colors (?) Green and a Tuscan Red shade.  I prefer to use Scalecoat II and would like to know if Scalecoat II is a good match for Pennsy paint for both colors??

(2) Are there any engine numbers, or a series of numbers, such as UP's Big Boys being 4000 thru 4024, or UP's oil-fired passenger Challengers being numbered starting with 3700 that have special significance for SPF's??

I am going to use Scalecoat II on this project because of its quality, ease of application and easy airbrush cleanup.  Just wanted to know from the PRR experts here what your opinion is of their two colors for PRR diesels...PRR Brunswick Green and PRR Dark Tuscan Red and how it compares (if possible) to the equivalent colors from Tru-Color?

Thanks!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2021, 04:22:30 PM »
+1
(2) Are there any engine numbers, or a series of numbers, such as UP's Big Boys being 4000 thru 4024, or UP's oil-fired passenger Challengers being numbered starting with 3700 that have special significance for SPF's??

Fun fact. PRR steam numbers were an insane jumble.
I don't know what they were doing back in the day, but they seemingly just used a random number generator when assigning numbers to locomotives.

Lemosteam

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2021, 05:48:40 PM »
+1
PRR colors YMMMV, The subject is very convoluted.

Diesel passenger, Tuscan in various shade intensity, that changed over time.

Diesel freight, DGLE (dark green locomotive enamel) is five parts black to 1 part green, Brunswick Green, again in various shade intensity, over the years. Black below walkways, safety yellow late  transition era,  vertical handrails and step edges.

Steam engines, same as above except the railings.

PRR numbering is even more convoluted than colors with many books devoted to classification rosters.

The PRR road numbers were generally separated by the PRR steam and diesel classification system and grouped sequential numbers in the various production orders from manufacturers of each class. They definitely DID NOT start at e.g, 3000 for a PRR class and stay within 3000-3999. They were all 9ver the place.

To help you one would need the year, type of loco, cross reference that to the PRR classification, which would lead to a specific road number within the order group.

Clear as mud right?


Point353

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2021, 10:35:27 PM »
+1
PRR colors YMMMV, The subject is very convoluted.
Diesel passenger, Tuscan in various shade intensity, that changed over time.
Diesel freight, DGLE (dark green locomotive enamel) is five parts black to 1 part green, Brunswick Green, again in various shade intensity, over the years. Black below walkways, safety yellow late  transition era,  vertical handrails and step edges.


peteski

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2021, 11:24:15 PM »
+1
We also know that vintage color photographs (especially scanned and displayed on computer screen) are not good for accurate color references. Well, unless you want your model to be replica of the photograph displayed on the screen.  :) 

Then of course is the paint fading and dirt those. Those change the paints apparent color.  Yes, I'm sure Robert has all those things under consideration, since he is  not a noob.
. . . 42 . . .

Lemosteam

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2021, 04:16:29 AM »
+1



Precisely my point. What I stated was the generality. The majority of images will show Tuscan.

The PRR ran a lot of special trains and sometimes had to use freight power to do them, note all of the personnel surrounding the train.  Not knowing what the gearing is on those two engines is the only thing that distinguished freight from passenger engines. 

And there are examples of Passenger geared engines in DGLE, but they were anomalies, or experiments that the railroad was trying as well.

Not to color match, as Peteski is right, but photos of specific raid numbers can sort what color was on what engine most of the time, particularly postwar as they might be color photos.

Point353

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2021, 07:11:54 AM »
+1
Precisely my point. What I stated was the generality. The majority of images will show Tuscan.

The PRR ran a lot of special trains and sometimes had to use freight power to do them, note all of the personnel surrounding the train.  Not knowing what the gearing is on those two engines is the only thing that distinguished freight from passenger engines. 

And there are examples of Passenger geared engines in DGLE, but they were anomalies, or experiments that the railroad was trying as well.
Are you then suggesting that those green E8 locos were all regeared for freight service or that they were all an anomaly?



Same for the E7 locos?




Lemosteam

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2021, 07:40:06 AM »
+2
The PRR had hundreds if not thousands of locomotives, and changed paint schemes all the time. Those photos are a point in time of a very small sample and yes as newer style locos came online the older nes were relegated to freight in many cases.

Point353

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2021, 07:57:23 AM »
+1
The PRR had hundreds if not thousands of locomotives, and changed paint schemes all the time. Those photos are a point in time of a very small sample and yes as newer style locos came online the older nes were relegated to freight in many cases.
Which newer style locos would have replaced the PRR E8 locos in passenger service?

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2021, 10:09:03 AM »
+1
Fun fact: PRR passenger diesels were originally DGLE, they were then painted Tuscan which they wore for most of their lives.

I still think the best looking PRR passenger diesel is the PA in DGLE.

https://www.broadway-limited.com/3100alcopaprr5757brunswickgreenwmetallicgold5-stripeparagon2sounddcdccn.aspx

Although my favorite was the super late punk rock scheme like this:
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/420796/

davefoxx

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2021, 10:22:56 AM »
+1
Although my favorite was the super late punk rock scheme like this:
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/420796/

I think you mean "glam-rock" scheme.  Looks like glitter all over the nose.  :D

DFF

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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2021, 10:25:05 AM »
+1
I think you mean "glam-rock" scheme.  Looks like glitter all over the nose.  :D

DFF

Oh man, I love it.

Lemosteam

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Lemosteam

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2021, 11:01:09 AM »
+1
Which newer style locos would have replaced the PRR E8 locos in passenger service?

You brought up the E7’s, which is what I was referring.

Mark5

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Re: A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2021, 12:35:13 PM »
+1
We also know that vintage color photographs (especially scanned and displayed on computer screen) are not good for accurate color references.

I disagree. Vintage photos can have accurate color rendition (but rarely do).

It is true that scans can alter the color rendition, and the monitor/screen that you view them on can further alter the colors.

Hell, color rendition often varies from one digital camera to the next. :D

Helluva a sticky wicket!

Mark