Atlas / Kato RS3 and RSD4

[mrp]

This is about the original 1983 version, all since equipped with decoders of various makes.

Over the years, they all seem to have developed electric pickup problems. If I connect track power directly to the frame, the engines all run very well. Some still have Lenz 077 or Digitrax DN140 decoders, and they run pretty well with the track power jumpered. The wheels are clean.

I tried wiring them in pairs, which helps some, but still not quite there.
 
I thought to connect a wire from the trucks to the frame, but don’t know what kind of solder would work on the metal, if any. So, may need to try screw connection.

The 4 axle version seems to have held up better than the 6 axle version, though I’m not sure if I’m just seeing things or just a different problem.

I have seen some stray comments from other people about these engines having or developing pickup problems, but don’t recall seeing any fixes. So, I guess the question is, what have other people done to resolve the pickup problem.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Michael Pennie

[peteski]

Of these are the models where the trucks have 2 internal diecast frames which for electrical contact touch the main frame halves, the way to make them run better is to fully take the trucks apart and give them through cleaning.  Next important step is to burnish/polish the contact areas of the truck frames and main frames.  That should make them run well for a while.

Soldering is not really an option for the white metal alloy.  But once you clean the trucks and burnish the contact areas, they will run well again.

[woodone]

Probably more work that you would like to do BUT. The newer Atlas diesels are using some small wires from the trucks to the frame.
They have removed the two strips that run for and aft on the frame. The wires plug into the side of the frame into a small hole. On yours you would need to figure out how to hook the wires to the trucks. Maybe drill a small hole and then insert a brass pin, then solder the wire to that.  BTW Atlas does service these wires with the terminal on the one end.

[Jim Costello]

I have been doing what Peteski suggests for years . The zinc alloy truck and chassis oxidise over time causing the pickup issues.  After I clean the two surfaces I
rub /burnish the surfaces with graphite ( MTL powered graphite) which helps in prolonging oxidation. I have heard of some that use a lead pencil as a graphite substitute
 however the graphite in the pencil also contains a wax which may be problematic.

Jim   NHRHTA #L082
Modelling the NH downunder

[Mark5]

I bought an Atlas/Kato RS3 when it came out back in '83 or so and painted it for N&W. Eventually (early this century), I became fed up with the Atlas/Kato electrical pickup design (Kato came up with a much better pick up system in the late 80s) so I bought an Atlas/China release and swapped the mechanisms. It runs so much better and of course has great pickup.

As pointed out above though, with some work the A/K mechanism can run well (soon after I bought mine I swapped out the traction tire wheels for non-traction tire wheels).

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[u18b]

I also have one- with a decoder.
Decoders sometimes don't do as well with the older white metal- but if you keep them clean, they can perform fine.

I do exactly what Peteski described.

[u18b]

Probably more work that you would like to do BUT. The newer Atlas diesels are using some small wires from the trucks to the frame.
They have removed the two strips that run for and aft on the frame. The wires plug into the side of the frame into a small hole. On yours you would need to figure out how to hook the wires to the trucks. Maybe drill a small hole and then insert a brass pin, then solder the wire to that.  BTW Atlas does service these wires with the terminal on the one end.

I don't think this will work/apply to the ones he's talking about.

He's talking about the original RS-3 made by Kato in Japan- not the ones made in China.

[u18b]

I also have an original 1983 one- with a decoder.
Decoders sometimes don't do as well with the older white metal- but if you keep them clean (and clean track), they can perform fine.

I do exactly what Peteski described.

[thomasjmdavis]

This leaves me wondering if there is an AAR sideframe to fit the trucks of the Kato F3 "revised" (the second run pre-DCC) version.  That will fit in the mounting on the Atlas/Kato RS3, I just did it to check, seems to run fine (for a chassis that is 35 years old and hasn't run for 3 years, on trucks I just took out of a storage box of spare parts).  The basic architecture of the Atlas/Kato RS and GP, and the original Kato F3 truck are the same.  The "revised" truck is a direct replacement for the original truck F3- frames are identical, the revisions, IIRC, were the trucks and a few cosmetic improvements.  The "revised" truck was revised specifically to address conductivity and pick up issues.  And if you still wanted to wire it, the brass pick ups in that version make soldering easy.

Ok, so that still leaves the sideframe problem.... I don't have a quick solution.  I looked at an Atlas RS-1 truck sideframe, but it doesn't have enough slots for gears, even if it otherwise fits, which I doubt.

[peteski]

As pointed out above though, with some work the A/K mechanism can run well (soon after I bought mine I swapped out the traction tire wheels for non-traction tire wheels).

Good point - I forgot about the traction tire.  Back in the day, I bought bunch of drivers without TT, and retrofired my locos. I think I still have few left.  Some say to remove the wheel-back wipers on one side from the trucks - I kept them in mine, and even bent them slightly to make more positive contact with the wheel.  Kato engineers decided they were needed, and bothered to manufacture the additional parts - I trust them.

[mrp]

I will try burnishing the top of the truck and bottom of the frame.
It will be a couple of days, as I am in the middle of putting in new decoders.

Regarding the wire and brass pin approach, I am not adverse to the work
I have a small drill press that makes this type of work manageable.
But will try the burnishing approach first.

I wasnt't sure if the old Atlas / Kato shell would fit the new China mechanism, so held off on this approach.
The shells are all custom paint, so I am reluctant to just scrap them

It's good to see there is hope for these old units. I still have a dozen in service, though they are fading fast.

Michael Pennie

[nkalanaga]

I'd go with Woodone's suggestion, if you use wires.  Just drill a press-fit hole, press a piece of brass rod into it, and solder the wire to that.  Much easier than tapping for a screw!

[mecgp7]

Years ago I posted a how to on making these old girls run smooth as silk. Can't find it now, but their are a series of steps. To ensure electrical contact from the wheels to the motor. Remove traction tires and replace wheels. Clean wheels, axles, and the "U" shaped pockets that the axles fit into in the trucks. These "U" s need to be lightly filed. There is mold flashing which is not visible, but one swipe with a file and you see them. Clean the top of the trucks where they touch the frame. Polish the underside of the frame where the trucks touch. Clean where the motor contacts touch the frame. Put "No-Ox" or the like on each point of electrical contact. REMOVE that little bronze looking wheel wipers from the trucks. They don't help and even Atlas said to remove them.
Then the best thing you can do for these locos is run them frequently. They don't do well after sitting for so long.
Finally, clean your track.

I have several of these and they run everywhere as smooth and more often more quiet that the new versions. I agree that running them in pairs improves overall performance.

[mrp]

I pretty much did everything that mecgp7 and peteski said to do, and it worked. I have done 2 engines so far, with good results. The burnishing was a new technique to me. Does anyone know how long it will last?

I agree the engines run better if they tun frequently. I guess there is an oxidation buildup in the motor brushes or the burnished areas. I will also continue to wire them in pairs, something I have found helps a lot of the older diesels.

I opted not to try the pin and wire technique; didn’t think I could pull it off.

I decided to replace the older decoders with a TCS-CN. The frames had been previously milled by Aztec. Other decoders would work but I prefer on board LED’s as it cleans up the wiring. The decoder had to be modified to mount properly (right end of lousy photo) and allow space for capacitors. I doubt TCS will cover this under their goof proof warranty.

I was able to squeeze in 4 330uf capacitors (item # TCN4337M020R0100E), which is a lot for an N scale diesel. They help smooth things out a lot, but don’t have enough power to run the motor any noticeable distance. My experience with this type of thing is limited to what I see in HO engines, which often last several seconds. I was a bit disappointed with the capacitors, but don’t really know what is needed in the first place.

So, I have 2 engines more or less restored to their former glory. Another 10 or so to go. I had thought I would have to scrap them, but there is still life in the old antiques.

Thanks for the help

Michael Pennie

[u18b]

I’m not sure about exact time, but the issue is oxidation.
Those old frames are made from an alloy of zinc, lead, and antimony.

The lead is the biggest culprit.  When it oxidizes, it leaves a bit of a powdery coating.