Author Topic: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout  (Read 6452 times)

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ednadolski

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Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« on: January 24, 2021, 04:16:55 PM »
+6
Very informative video.  For anyone who has ever thought about hand-laying a turnout in N-scale, this is a great starting point.


railnerd

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2021, 01:18:31 PM »
0
Love this guys videos.  I think he's in Germany and part of the AmericaN.de group.

-Dave

craigolio1

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2021, 07:34:25 AM »
0
Really enjoyed this video. Thanks for sharing.

Craig

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2021, 02:24:43 PM »
+1
Interesting approach, building from side to side. Good looking turnout, but I just don’t see how the thin points and the narrow throwbar stand up to any but the lightest use. That connection has always been the Achilles heel on my hand built turnouts. Maybe I’m just not as good a solderer :P
Otto K

dem34

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2021, 04:17:31 PM »
+1
Interesting approach, building from side to side. Good looking turnout, but I just don’t see how the thin points and the narrow throwbar stand up to any but the lightest use. That connection has always been the Achilles heel on my hand built turnouts. Maybe I’m just not as good a solderer :P
Otto K

I stopped having issues when I started to make absolutely sure I've scrubbed down both the bottom of the rail and the throw bar tie with a medium grit sanding file before soldering. It also seems like the micro scratches give a bit more surface area for the Solder to bite to.
-Al

Angus Shops

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2021, 01:28:06 PM »
0
The Fastracks website has a series of videos on their recommended methods of turnout construction that I’ve followed with good results.  Their methods have a different order of assembly. I’ve also been satisfied with the solid soldered point to throw bar connection and non hinged (solid/flexed) point rail combination. The Fastracks videos have some helpful hints on making a good soldered connection for this as well. Yes, occasionally a point springs loose from a throw bar, but it’s usually a ten minute fix, but it’s pretty rare. Also, most of my switches are #7’s and I suspect that the longer points rail create less stress on these joints than on a shorter switch such as a #6.

I admit a breakdown would be a pain in an operating session, but you could treat it as a prototype track issue - I remember one trip on the Canadian years ago it took our train a solid couple of hours to get out of the Vancouver station because of a track switch problem. We backed and shunted up and down a whole series terminal tracks before we made it as far as ‘the cut’ (for those knowledgeable with local geography; for others who are not, about a mile from the station bumpers). The apologetic train staff were pouring ‘Champaign’ like it was water in the Park car, and I got some ‘rare mileage’!

ednadolski

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2021, 03:38:33 PM »
0
I stopped having issues when I started to make absolutely sure I've scrubbed down both the bottom of the rail and the throw bar tie with a medium grit sanding file before soldering. It also seems like the micro scratches give a bit more surface area for the Solder to bite to.

Soldering always has to have a clean surface, as oxidation will inhibit the process.  I use a rosin flux like the SuperSafe #30 (gel).   (FWIW, FastTracks says you can use an acid flux... I never use it (except for sweating copper pipe with a propane torch) but it will damage electronics and other materials if you don't properly clean away every last bit of residue.)   Like many things, there is no single, right way to do it, so it's a matter of finding what works best for you.

Ed

ednadolski

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2021, 03:45:11 PM »
0
... but I just don’t see how the thin points and the narrow throwbar stand up to any but the lightest use. That connection has always been the Achilles heel on my hand built turnouts.

You might want to consider making hinged points.  Even tho it is more work, I like that it result in less stress on the throwbar joints, esp. as rail sizes get larger and/or the points get shorter (like for a #6 or less).  A throwbar joint is inherently weaker than regular rail because so much of the rail base gets filed away to form the point.

Ed

Angus Shops

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2021, 01:06:24 AM »
0
...and broke one tonight. I am ballasting  track I am guessing I got some glue (dilute white) in a spot I shouldn’t heave and stressed the joint...

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2021, 12:08:59 PM »
0
You might want to consider making hinged points.  Even tho it is more work, I like that it result in less stress on the throwbar joints, esp. as rail sizes get larger and/or the points get shorter (like for a #6 or less).  A throwbar joint is inherently weaker than regular rail because so much of the rail base gets filed away to form the point.

Ed

Yes. I have a couple C55 #11’s I built about 25 years ago and figured notching the foot of the rail would give it enough flex on such a long turnout. Not so, had to resolder the connections multiple times. there’s just not enough body near the tip and I finally replaced the throwbars with double wide bars. Not as nice looking, but so far seem to hold. I also find resoldering failed connections on the layout a real PiTA, especially after the turnout has been ballasted. And maybe I do need to improve my soldering skills...
Otto

ednadolski

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2021, 12:32:09 PM »
0
Yes. I have a couple C55 #11’s I built about 25 years ago and figured notching the foot of the rail would give it enough flex on such a long turnout. Not so, had to resolder the connections multiple times. there’s just not enough body near the tip and I finally replaced the throwbars with double wide bars. Not as nice looking, but so far seem to hold. I also find resoldering failed connections on the layout a real PiTA, especially after the turnout has been ballasted. And maybe I do need to improve my soldering skills...

JMHO, not to say that it won't work, but I think C55 rail is rather on the stiff side for using flex points instead of hinged.

One other thing to try, I make a small L-shape from 0.008" PB wire, and solder one leg to the base of the point rail (along the line where the web meets the base on the un-filed side of the rail), and the other onto the top of the throwbar.  It significantly strengthens the joint, and while it does add a bit of cosmetic impact that can be minimized by painting it over.  If you don't get any solder between the rail and the throwbar, then the wire actually allows for a slight bit of flex as the points move.

Full disclosure: my deployment of hand-built turnouts is quite minimal -- it's not like I've built scores of these and have had them deployed and functioning on a large layout for many years.  So take whatever I say more as suggestions with caveats, rather than as any authoritative 'voice of experience'.  YMMV ;)

Ed

« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 12:37:57 PM by ednadolski »

peteski

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2021, 04:09:15 PM »
0
@robert3985 has a method of attaching the points to the throwbar that eliminates possibility of failing solder joints at the throwbar, regardless of whether there is a hinged or sold connection with the closure rail.
. . . 42 . . .

narrowminded

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2021, 04:50:21 PM »
0
If thinned closure rail joints are to be used the thinning of the web is very important.  Really uniform and thinned from both sides, even a few thousandths into it, enough to see it skinned the full height of the web.  Use your mill if you have one and prep them before to install. 

The biggest problems with soldered throw bar joints is their rigidity with the resulting fact that they must force the rail end to flex to whatever angle the parallelogram dictates defined by the hinge points at one end and the throw bar at the other end.  There's no way around that situation as described.  There must be sufficient strength of the throw bar joint to force sufficient flex of the closure point, or eliminate the force with hinged throw bar joints.  My inclination is hinged throw bar joints and flex heel joints.

While writing this, it occurred to me that notching the PCB tie bar at each end, close to the rail joint, might afford enough flex in the throw bar to reduce the twisting load on the joint.  I suspect the throw bar prepped like that would flex enough without breaking but don't know that. :|
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 05:00:24 PM by narrowminded »
Mark G.

robert3985

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2021, 04:43:46 AM »
+9
I've looked at the video twice and although ANY video that promotes the idea of hand-laying Code 40 (or Code 55) N-scale turnouts is good in my book, I have my own preferred way of building Code 40 turnouts derived from several decades of doing it.

Since we are talking about "Model" railroading, I prefer to expend my efforts in ways that build a fairly realistic looking turnout, as well as one that is robust, ultra-smooth running and not too difficult to construct.

I am not going to pick the video apart too much, but there are a few things that I am pretty sure will render a more reliable and accurate turnout.

I don't build turnouts in-place, and see no reason to do it.  Building them on the bench is much more convenient and accurate since access to tools as well as the pieces/parts of the turnout while constructing are generally much better.

I also think that gluing down a paper template on the roadbed underneath the ties of your turnout is making sure that the railheads on your turnouts are from .003" to .006" higher than the railheads on hand-laid Code 40 track without a paper template under it, that lead to and from your hand-laid turnout.  I like to be assured that my turnouts' railheads are the same height as the track leading in and out of them.  A slow train will noticeably wobble going over a .003" or .006" difference in height on the railheads, and I want trains running through my turnouts to run like silk ribbons.

I also build my turnouts using paper templates, but I tape the PCB ties down, without ANY non-PCB ties between them (where the turnouts are) when shaping and soldering on my rails.  When I build two or three turnouts together at the same time, in Code 55 I slide ME ties on the connecting trackage between turnouts.  I put the wooden or Styrene non-PCB turnout ties in later after the turnout is laid and functioning perfectly.  The paper templates stay taped to the workbench until removed and tossed into the garbage can.  This allows me to cut my gaps cleanly and precisely using a nice jeweler's saw and a fine-toothed blade, with none of the gouging and overheating that using a fine cut-off blade in a rotary tool will inevitably do.   You can't use a jeweler's saw if you build your turnouts in place, and cutting the gaps cleanly and precisely without gouging the railheads, or breaking a solder joint or three, REQUIRES the use of a jeweler's saw.

Photo (1) - Turnouts Under Construction On My Workbench Using Paper Templates:


Although it is commonly done, I am not a fan of non-hinged monolithic point/closure rails mainly because of the non-prototypical appearance.  They function okay, but don't look like a "real" turnout, that has a distinct "kink" where the point rail heel hinge meets the closure rail when the point rail is open.

Photo (2) - Code 40 Turnout on Park City Branch Showing "kink" At Point Rail Heel Hinge:



So, how to make a functional point rail heel hinge.  There are at least three methods, but the type of hinge you NEED to use depends on what you're going to do to attach the point rail toes to your throwbar.

An easy, functional and good-looking way of making a point rail heel hinge is to "notch" the rails on either side with a small triangular jeweler's file...filing to and kissing the rail web.  This provides instant rail alignment and instant electrical conductivity, as well as a very robust and long-lasting hinge.  When I make these, I now cut them with my jeweler's saw instead of making a "V" cut with a triangular file.  But, as I will discuss further on, these have problems that can be VERY detrimental to having a reliable turnout.

Photo (3) - Notch Hinges Filed Into Code 55 Monolithic Point Rail/Closure Rails:


Photo (4) - Notch Hinges Filed into Code 40 Monolithic Point Rail/Closure Rails:


A second way is to use a cut-down Micro-Engineering Code 40 rail joiner...cutting it and dressing it (no burrs) so that it's a bit less long than the space between ties.  Solder one end of it to either the end of the closure rail at the hinge point, or on to the heel of the closure point rail, then slide it on to the end of the closure rail which should be protruding halfway into the space between ties at the hing position.  A little crimping will ensure good electrical contact for live point rails, but not TOO much crimping because you want this hinge to not only hinge from side-to-side, but also to slide left and right, parallel to the stock rails.

Photo (5) - Modified ME #6 With Short Rail Joiner Point Rail Heel Hinges:


The third way is to purchase Proto87Stores "Throwbars & Point Hinges" for $2.49 (enough for two Code 40 turnouts) which are etched from Nickel Silver and look very realistic from the top.  I don't use the P87Stores "throwbars" which come on the same fret as the hinges.  This builds very quickly a precise spacer between the heels of both point rails, closure rails and the adjacent stock rail, and gives you a hinging/sliding hinge which is good.  Go here for a peek at the fret that's available or to order: http://www.proto87.com/N_scale_turnouts_and_track.html

Photo (6) - Proto87Stores Etched Point Hinges on C55 Turnout Under Construction:


Photo (7) - Proto87Stores Etched Point Hinges on Finished C55 Turnout:


Let's discuss THE THROWBAR...which is the point of the vast majority of problems associated with hand-laying N-scale turnouts.  Most of us use a PCB tie (either HO scale or N-scale) as a throwbar, soldering the point rail toes to it.  If you decide to use either cut-down Micro Engineering Code40 rail joiners or the Proto87Stores point rail heel hinges, this will work pretty well, and may never break.

If you decide to go with the monolithic point rail/closure rail protocol with the frog side of this assembly being soldered to a couple of PCB ties down close to the frog, this will also work well with an N-scale PCB tie as a throwbar

However, if you decide to go with the nice looking "notch" hinges and their inherent advantages, soldering the closure rails to a PCB tie at a scale or near-scale distance from the point rail toes, you MUST provide a hinged attachment at the throwbar for your closure point toes, or they will break from the torsion produced by having constructed a solid parallelogram structure out of non-sliding hinges, and solidly soldered point rail toes are where they will break.

When you solidly attach your point rail toes to your throwbar by soldering it, the reason it breaks is not because of the minimal surface area that less than half of a Code 40's railfoot gives you.  The reason it breaks is because with no "sliding" hinge at the heel of the point rail, you form a solid parallelogram structure, and the point rails/closure rails have to bend into a very shallow "S" when the points are aligned.

Photo ( 8 ) - Code 40 Monolithic Point Rail/Closure Rail Hinged With "Notch" Hinge & Solidly Soldered to Throwbar:


If you decide to go with the monolithic point rail/closure rail protocol, the torque generated at the throwbar's soldered-on point rail toes will be minimal because of the length of each combination rail, and the flexibility of Code 40 rail. 

For Code 40 turnouts, you might get away with notch hinges and solidly soldered point rail toes on your throwbar if you're constructing long turnouts, but for shorter ones, you're taking a chance.

For Code 55 turnouts, if you use notch hinges, because of the size of the rails and being much stiffer than Code 40 rails, the solidly soldered point rail toes on your PCB throwbar will eventually break...even using silver bearing solder which is 6 times stronger than electrical lead-bearing solder.

So, How do you make point rail toes that are hinged and look halfway realistic?  I've made a drawing of how I do mine...which adds to the complexity and time taken to build your turnout, but they look pretty good, and function flawlessly.

EDIT: Mark @narrowminded has very astutely pointed out that it is doubtful that this design will work for Code40 switches.  A smaller wire might work, but I would have to actually build a Code40 switch to determine the clearances.  However, this design works very good with Code55 rail and is running on my layout presently with no problems.

Photo (9) - How to build your own realistic-looking point rail toe throwbar hinges:


If you want to build these, then make sure you follow the directions exactly.  There's a reason behind the sequence of events.

Photo (10) - My Point Rail Toe Throwbar Hinge Top View:


Photo (11) - My Point Rail Toe Throwbar Hinge Underneath View:


For extra realism, I use Prototo87Stores N-scale three-way planed point rails, which work like the real deal, and don't require you to remove the foot of adjacent stock rails.  At $9.95 each, they really add to the cost of your hand-laid turnouts, but look great!  One of these days, I'll figure out how to make 'em myself, but for now, I just bite the bullet and buy 'em.

Okay, back to the video.  I notice that he uses his PCB ties very sparsely and not at all at areas on my turnouts that I want to remain immovable and strong....the frog and using PCB ties as the headblocks on either side of the throwbar are particularly important as is a PCB tie on either side of gaps cut in the rails.

Photo (12) - PCB ties used to strengthen the frog point, gaps and for headblocks: 



I probably use more PCB ties than is absolutely necessary, but since my layout is sectional and travels a lot, I want my turnouts to be very robust.

Although I understand his philosophy about no sharp angles when grinding away the inside foot of the adjacent stock rail, his logic is flawed because if you've got flanges that are going to "catch" on sharp angles on the foot of your rails, you are running flanges that are WAY too deep...even for Code40 rails.  I make right-angles where the stock-rail railfoot relief cuts stop, so that it looks like something the prototype would do, rather than some free-form highly unprototypical un-railroady look. 

I also don't like his drilling of such a huge hole under the throwbar.  I drill a hole centered where the Tortoise wire is going to come up through the subroadbed and the roadbed, then elongate it parallel to the throwbar with my Dremel and a longish spiral tungsten carbide cutter close to the same diameter as the drill I've used in the drill motor.  This leaves enough space for the Tortoise actuator rod to work the throwbar, but not any more space than necessary where there will be no ballast and the hole will be visible.  When ballasting, I oil up my point rail toes and throwbar really good....and they never get stuck.

He also leaves a lot of rail-ends....including the ends of the guardrails and the pointy end of the frog...with that characteristic C-cut that comes from an angled grind on rail caused by the rail profile...the railhead being the top of the "C" and the railfoot being the bottom....with the railweb being the middle.  Ends of rails should be a right angle to both railhead and railfoot, so the video guy should stop making the angled grinds before grinding away the railweb, or bend his rails before grinding to eliminate that unsightly way to finish ends of rails.

I also wonder why people generally cut the copper cladding on their PCB ties right down the middle?  I cut mine using an oval jeweler's file, at angles and not right down the middle of the ties.  Although the fellow making the video fills his ground cladding cuts with UV glue (a really good idea) then sands them down, if you just cut away the copper cladding like I suggest, when you paint the turnout, these "cuts" disappear, and you don't have to fill and sand.

Photo (13) - PCB Cladding Cuts Using and Oval Jeweler's File & Top View of Proto87Stores Point Rail Heel Hinges:


I'm not too crazy about his soldering techniques.  I fill the frog points with solder, especially at the sharp tip where strength is needed.  I also don't bend "wings" into the wing rails any more.  If frogs are built to NMRA recommendations, they are too long for N-scale, so...I build them to scale lengths for the turnout number according to my scale drawings...and they are much shorter than what the NMRA recommends...which makes N-scale turnouts built using NMRA recommendations look like HOn3 turnouts.

Also, the guardrails prototypically are shorter than what the NMRA recommends.

The video guy is correct that too much solder at the point rail toes can screw up the mechanical operation of the switch.  However, instead of just advising you to err on the side of "less solder", you can mark on the PCB tie cladding adjacent to the filed outer vertical surface of the point toes with a sharp #2 pencil...or scribble a solid coating of pencil lead graphite on the throwbar that slides under the stock rail...and solder will not go there.  The pencil graphite acts as an "anti-flux" preventing the solder from sticking to it, or even running onto it.  Additionally, it acts as a lubricant between the top surface of the throwbar and the underside of the railfoot between the headblocks. This trick has saved my bacon a jillion times.

Although I build my turnouts nowadays using my 250W Resistance Soldering Station, the vast majority of turnouts I've made over the decades were done with a simple 35W cheap Radio Shack soldering iron, soldering iron stand, wet sponge and a little can of tinning paste.  I still use it to tin parts and track feeders.

I also polish the copper cladding on my PCB ties right before starting construction with a pink pencil eraser, which removes any oxidation.  I also wipe the rails I'm going to use with a rag dampened with Bestine to make sure they are degreased.

Lastly, I highly recommend using silver-bearing solder for all turnout construction, because it is 6 time stronger than electrical lead-bearing solder.  Also, a self-neutralizing high quality flux will turn you into an expert solderer.   The solder I recommend and use is 96/4 Tin/Silver solder, and the flux I use exclusively is Superior No. 30 Supersafe gel flux, both available at H&N Electronics here: https://www.hnflux.com/page25.html   Make sure you get a couple of "dispensing bottles and spouts" at the site too.

Code 40 turnouts are much easier and quicker to make than Code 55 just because the rail is easier to bend and less material needs to be removed.  Although Micro Engineering manufactures Code 40 flex, the inside spikeheads have to be sanded down for it to be functional.  However, hand-laid code 40 track (with PCB ties every fifth tie) has a full .044" of flange clearance and even pizza cutters will roll unobstructed on it.  I really like the way it looks under nicely detailed cars and locomotives when it's painted, weathered and ballasted.  Here's a photo of just Code 40 hand-laid track on my Park City Branch with a parked 4000 Class on top of it.  I think that it really adds to the prototype look, even if there are no tie-plates or spikeheads to be seen.

Photo (14) - Handlaid Code 40 PCB track under 4000 Class on Park City Branch trackage at Echo Junction:



I am pretty sure that on my upcoming 20' of Wilhemina Pass/Devils Slide LDE, I hope to be using Mark's superdetailed tie strips for my Code 40 sidings, spurs and industrial trackage at the Ideal Concrete Plant.  If I like 'em, I'll probably rip up all of my Code 40 Park City Branchline trackage and re-do it using Mark's ties strips and perhaps his turnout ties if they get done in time.  It will be great to not have to comment any longer about my Code 40 trackage not having tie plates and spikeheads!

EDIT: For myself, I have decided to use the Proto87Stores Point Rail Heel Hinges for my Code40 turnouts in my next phase of layout construction.  Since these hinges both rotate AND slide, there is no need for a hinged attachment of point rail toes at the throwbar.  I'll also be using Proto87Stores tri-planed point rails instead of hand-filed home-made ones that require the adjacent stock rail's foot to be filed away.  I'll cobble up a cosmetic throw-rod out of .006" wire with a flattened end to lay on the point rail's railfoot, and solder the wire to a PCB throwbar, gapped in the middle where the Tortoise throw-lever protrudes through the throwbar.  This will make the throwbars look better, but be far less complicated since that isn't necessary using a rotating-sliding point rail heel hinge. I'll post photos in three to six months when I'm at that stage in construction.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore















« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 01:14:05 AM by robert3985 »

ednadolski

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Re: Tutorial Video: Hand-lay an N-Scale Code 40 Turnout
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2021, 06:00:01 PM »
0
how to make a functional point rail heel hinge.  There are at least three methods ....

One other method that I recollect buy have yet to try myself:  Solder a short (say 0.250") length of 0.008" or so PB wire onto both the end of the closure rail and the heel end of the point rail, along the line where the web of each rail meets the foot.  The wire ought to be flexible enough to allow the needed movement, yet durable enough to hold up under the amount of flex needed and keep the rails in alignment.

Key would be to keep it all aligned, and to avoid soldering the movable point rail from either the end of the closure rail or an adjacent PCB tie.  If you wanted to hide the wire, you could solder beforehand on the side of the rail adjacent to each stock rail, but you would have to judge all your rail lengths accordingly before installing the closure rail (just like with continuous rail).  OTOH having the wire on the gauge side would mean that you could reach it in case any repair/replace of a point rail was ever needed.

As an added bonus, you get solid electrical contact for the points, again just like with continuous rail.

(hey, I think I am talking myself into this....)  :ashat:

Ed