Ok nerds, tell me about gravel in the early 20th century

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'm trying to figure out the appropriate ground cover for the "test track".

It's theoretically set before WW1.

For an engine servicing area, would crushed gravel be appropriate?

I don't really know the state of mechanical crushing at that point. Was it widespread?

Should I just go with cinders?

[Chris333]

Back then there were gavel pits that railroads would harvest from.

[wazzou]

I'd imagine there was a lot of clinker and cinders around.  Clinker was the byproduct of burned coal.

[Tristan Ashcroft]

It’s PRR.  There was probably a standard.

[Dave V]

I'd imagine there was a lot of clinker and cinders around.  Clinker was the byproduct of burned coal.

This. Engine terminals back then were almost exclusively ballasted with cinder and slag.  Any black cinder or sanded grout ballast would work.

[Tristan Ashcroft]

My dad is in the cinders camp.  His words: "absolutely cinders".  He added they should be drifts of cinders, like sand at the beach.

[DKS]

Cinders. FWIW.

[sd45elect2000]

For the most part I think it is true that all of the railroad companies owned gravel pits. The Milwaukee had several, the one I'm most familiar with is Wheeler pit near Janesville Wisconsin. Wheeler pit run was only gravel not crushed stone of any kind. The stone was round pebbles. There were also many locations where cinder was used.
I know of several locations where cinder was used to create embankments for industrial spurs on the Milwaukee. Wheeler pit run was used as ballast.

Many of the interurban lines in Northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin owned gravel pits. The Ives quarry in SE Wisconsin still exists and there was also a large pit at Horlicksville. Sam Insull had a pit near Liberty Lake Illinois to supply gravel to his interurban lines.


 The D&H used cinder fill to great effect building solid cinder embankments.

The evolution of subgrade and ballast took some time. Some ballast served well as fertilizer to grow weeds. There were many inventions back then to either burn off the weeds, mow them or later, to poison them.

I've worked a lot of railroad rehab work back in the 80s and found the history of railroad building to be very interesting !!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ok. I went with cinders.





But also some dirt.



Thanks everyone!

[nkalanaga]

"There were many inventions back then to either burn off the weeds, mow them or later, to poison them. "

The SP&S had a "weed steamer".  It actually sprayed the roadbed with live steam to cook the weeds.  The advantage was that, by not using a burner, they avoided possibly starting wildfires in the dry summers.  I don't know how well it worked, or how long they used it.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

"There were many inventions back then to either burn off the weeds, mow them or later, to poison them. "

The SP&S had a "weed steamer".  It actually sprayed the roadbed with live steam to cook the weeds.  The advantage was that, by not using a burner, they avoided possibly starting wildfires in the dry summers.  I don't know how well it worked, or how long they used it.

Interesting. I also always figured that the nasty stuff in coal ash helped keep vegetation down too.

[Maletrain]

I am curious about the use of pit gravel for ballast.  Gravel from pits is usually rounded by rolling along in fast streams/rivers before coming to rest in a deep place where the rushing water no longer moved it.  Later, it got buried and much later, discovered by man and dug out for a variety of uses.

But, unlike "crushed rock" gravel from pits that is "rounded pebbles" tends to not pack down tight and moves around under loads.  So, it would seem that it would make really poor ballast and even worse fill for sub-roadbed.   I would think that ties laid on pebble ballast would soon vibrate down to the sub-roadbed.

[wazzou]

There is plenty of evidence on some old Milwaukee mainline I've walked of round or river rock ballast.

[nkalanaga]

Yes, The MILW used river gravel for ballast.  The two explanations I've read are :

They were cheap, and didn't want to pay for the good stuff.  Wouldn't surprise me a bit, since the also used uncreosoted poles for the electrification.  Then added "stub" poles to hold the originals up, when they rotted off at the ground.

The second reason was that "crushed rock is sharp, and wears the ties out faster".  Since one of the main purposes of ballast is to hold the tie in place, deliberately using ballast that won't do that seems unlikely.  But, maybe, it's another sign of being cheap.  They figured rough track was worth it to not have to buy new ties as often!

Off topic, but an article years ago, in the early 70s, by an EMD traveling engineer sent to the Pacific Extension to help set up some new SD40-2s, had his comments on the track and wires.  He wasn't impressed by the track, but noted that the wire wasn't zig-zagged like European railroads do, to spread the wear on the pantograph.  After a few cab rides in his new diesels, trailing the electrics, he understood why.  The Europeans have good track, so if the wire stayed centered, it would wear a groove in the contact shoe.  The Milwaukee's track was so bad that the rocking of the loco kept the pantograph itself moving, so the wire couldn't stay in one place.  Plus, the poles were crooked enough that the wire often wasn't centered anyway!  He was very relieved to go back to Illinois without experiencing at least one derailment.

[Tristan Ashcroft]

Interesting. I also always figured that the nasty stuff in coal ash helped keep vegetation down too.

Almost certainly it did.  Except for hollyhocks.  One of my dad's fond memories of being a little kid in Altoona was all the hollyhocks growing in coal piles.  They thrived.  But yeah, other than that, life was a constant light rain of cinders/soot/whatever, and yeah that can't be good for normal plants.