Atlas scale speed motors - really slow to get moving

[Bart1701]

I'm confused Bart.  If I understand it correctly, CV3 and CV4 were already set to zero when you checked?  And after checking you tried to run the loco, and the problem of slow ramp-up to speed was resolved?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The performance was still the same as it was before. In an attempt to confirm that there was no momentum activated. I very quickly turned the throttle up to 60 (since that's where the engine will move at a moderate pace). There was absolutely no momentum effect; the engine leaped into motion. Then I quickly killed the throttle by rapidly going back down to 0; the engine stopped immediately with no momentum. I was just doing this to confirm that all momentum was, in fact, turned off.

It still takes a lot of throttle application to get the engine to start moving, and then a lot more to get it moving at a moderate pace.

Bart

Bart

[Bart1701]

I would suggest you completely clean your locos to remove any old lube. Then apply a very light oil. I do this will all my locos even high speed Kato locos. I also use Digitrax and its a great system. If you want to trade motors I have a lot of Kato motors that I have removed and replaced with a superior Atlas scale speed motor.         

(Attachment Link)

Do you have a link to a Railwire post or other web site that provides detailed instructions on how to properly clean and re-lubricate a locomotive? That's something I have never needed to do.

Let me try doing a good cleaning first to see if that helps. Failing that, trading with you might be my next best option. Here is the GP-40-2 motor in the frame; will one of your "inferior" Kato motors  fit? *** Oops, forgot to post the photo. Attached in another reply below! ***  I'd be willing to start with this one and if that makes me happier, then I'd have 3 other motors that would be swapping candidates.

Bart

[Bart1701]

It sounds like they are running correctly then.

Most people run trains too fast. Kato gearing and motors make that even more extreme. I don't remember the actual numbers but a kato SD70Ace on 12v (no decoder) is running close to 200 scale mph. That's great for a shinkanzen (sp?) Bullet train, not so good for a train of autorack or well cars.

The atlas motors allow you to use your whole range of throttle and generally top out at a more realistic 80-120 smph. If you are doing switching this expanded throttle range gives you more control at yard speeds.

Yes, I will certainly concede that they are probably running correctly (working as designed). However, I don't do much switching and have a short 30 ft. mainline. When I go in to run some trains, I'll usually spend about 15-30 minutes in the room; so I don't have the time others have suggested to run the locomotive for a while to loosen things up. When it takes 50-60 "clicks" on my throttle to get the engine moving at a moderate speed, that just seems like a lot of "clicking". I will occasionally do some switching using Kato and older Atlas engines; I find that they run slow enough for me when the throttles are set to a very low setting (between 1 to 5 on the throttle). I never use the full range of the throttle with my Kato engines; my max setting would usually be about 60% of the range and that seems to move them along at an acceptable and realistic speed for me.

I think it all comes down to preferences. Some people like the Atlas scale speed motors for the greater control they offer at slow speeds and the more realistic maximum speeds, and others are just fine with the performance of Kato and older Atlas locomotives. Since the bulk of my engines are Kato or older Atlas engines and I am satisfied by and used to the the way they operate, my objective is to get the 4 engines I have with scale speed motors to behave more like the Kato engines. Just trying to get more consistency among my fleet of engines so I don't have to keep adjusting the way I run different locomotives.

Bart

[Bart1701]

Here is the motor in the GP-40-2. Forgot to post this in an earlier reply!

[rrjim1]

Yes the motor will fit,  all those Kato motors are from most of my Kato locos that I installed Atlas motors in. The difference is the contacts and flywheels. If you want to swap I can change the flywheels you will need to do the contacts. I believe there is a video some where that shows how to disassemble, clean and lube a n-scale loco.  I have never had to watch it but have seen posts with a link to it.   

[rrjim1]

rrjim1  do you happen to have a f3/7  Kato motor. I am in need of one.

I'm sure I do but it would be without flywheels. Do you have the old motor?   

[ns737]

yes i do have the old motor.

[rrjim1]

yes i do have the old motor.

If you can change the flywheels I will just send you a motor. If not you can send me the motor I will change them and send it back.   LMK

[Bart1701]

Yes the motor will fit,  all those Kato motors are from most of my Kato locos that I installed Atlas motors in. The difference is the contacts and flywheels. If you want to swap I can change the flywheels you will need to do the contacts.

RRjim1 - I sent you a PM. I think I will take you up on your offer to swap motors.

Thanks,
Bart

[rrjim1]

RRjim1 - I sent you a PM. I think I will take you up on your offer to swap motors.

Thanks,
Bart

PM sent.

[John]

I have noticed this issue on Atlas engine that have sat for a while (several months) without being run.  If break out some different engines to run on my club's N-trak layout, I may have to put the throttle at 50-60 to get them moving at a reasonable speed.  After a few laps I can usually start backing the throttle off and by the end of the run session they do the same actual speed with the throttle in the 20-30 range.  My suspicion is that the grease in the bearings hardens over time, and until it warms up and lubricates properly, the engine runs slow.

Tim

Tim .. I have the same experience ..some of my locomotives have sat on the layout for a couple of years without moving .. cleaning the wheels, and then running on a circle of track for 10 minutes in each direction usually fixes the arthritis ... sometimes you just need to dissasemble and clean the muck out of them ..

[peteski]

Tim .. I have the same experience ..some of my locomotives have sat on the layout for a couple of years without moving .. cleaning the wheels, and then running on a circle of track for 10 minutes in each direction usually fixes the arthritis ... sometimes you just need to dissasemble and clean the muck out of them ..

I agree that a type of a motor is not to be blamed for slow ramp up to speed.  Yes, Kato locos will run at around twice the speed of Atlas locos (at full throttle), but both brands of locos normally get to their maximum speed in a second or two.  Installing a faster motor will not cure the problem.  As others have said, since momentum in the decoder is set to zero, the problem is mechanical in nature.  I have also seen many examples of Atlas locos (and other brands too) where the copious amount of factory applied lubricant thickens or hardens over time, dampening (or even jamming in some cases) the mechanism.  Few minutes of running allows the grease to soften up, decreasing the dampening effect and allowing the model to come up to full speed.

Only way to take care of the problem is to disassemble the model, clean out the old hard lubrication and reassemble and re-lubricate it sparingly with new lubricant.

While I'm a Kato fanboy, I would also recommend against replacing the Atlas motors with Katos.  Since this is DCC, I would instead lower the maximum speed of the Kato locos (so they run at a more realistic speed over the throttles entire speed range).

[rrjim1]

I don't see very many Atlas locos with to much lube. I own over a 100 and just put decoders in two and neither had to much lube.   I have seen a few scale speed Atlas motors that ramped up slow, it's almost always a motor bearing problem.  I changed out most of my Kato locos motors for Atlas, if someone likes Kato motors because they want there locos to run faster then I don't see a problem changing the motor.  This way it much easier to speed match locos.       

[peteski]

I don't see very many Atlas locos with to much lube. I own over a 100 and just put decoders in two and neither had to much lube.   I have seen a few scale speed Atlas motors that ramped up slow, it's almost always a motor bearing problem.  I changed out most of my Kato locos motors for Atlas, if someone likes Kato motors because they want there locos to run faster then I don't see a problem changing the motor.  This way it much easier to speed match locos.     

I have had my share of Atlas locos where the cream-color grease solidified into consistency of cold beef fat (very hard as far as grease goes). Al least that is the best visual comparison I can make.

And with DCC speed matching is quite easy (even for different speed motors or gear ratios).  But if Bart wants all his models to run at Kato speed, and you will gladly exchange those slow-speed motors for Bart, than all is good!  Everybody's happy (except for the person who might inherit Bart's Atlas locos with Kato motors in them). 

And if Bart doesn't service those Atlas mechanisms before installing new motors, he might be disappointed in their performance.  But yes, in the end they will run a lot faster.

[rrjim1]

I have had my share of Atlas locos where the cream-color grease solidified into consistency of cold beef fat (very hard as far as grease goes). Al least that is the best visual comparison I can make.

And with DCC speed matching is quite easy (even for different speed motors or gear ratios).  But if Bart wants all his models to run at Kato speed, and you will gladly exchange those slow-speed motors for Bart, than all is good!  Everybody's happy (except for the person who might inherit Bart's Atlas locos with Kato motors in them). 

And if Bart doesn't service those Atlas mechanisms before installing new motors, he might be disappointed in their performance.  But yes, in the end they will run a lot faster.

Bart has already disassembled the loco and I'm sure if there was a ton of beef fat in the gears he would have went that route first.  Common Sense!