Atlas scale speed motors - really slow to get moving

[Bart1701]

I have read many of the posts regarding Atlas Scale Speed Motors and know that a lot of people really like them.  There are often comparisons made to the Kato engines as "slot car motors", referring to how quickly they start moving and their high top speeds.

Without starting a thread with everyone's opinions on what is better, I'd like to just get some good advice from all the experts!

I have several Atlas engines that I bought a few years ago, most with factory installed decoders. Outside of setting the locomotive address, the decoders should all have their original values for the other CVs.

I always noted that these engines were extremely slow when they started moving, and that I had to crank the throttle up really high to get them to move at a decent pace (this is just the engine without anything attached to it). I am running a Digitrax system and have one of their radio equipped Super Throttles. I tested my GP-40-2, and found that I have to crack the throttle up to 60 to get what I would consider an average pace for my layout. (at 10, it barely moves; at 20 it moves like a slow snail, at 30 we have a slow turtle, at 40 and 50 we begin to move at a slow pace, and at 70 or above it is moving faster than I would normally run a train at).

Even if I crank up the throttle to around 50 when I start the engine, it still takes forever to get up to speed. I have a smaller layout, with about 30 feet of mainline track, and it may take 2 laps around the layout before it gets up to speed.

At first, I thought it might be something with the decoder that Atlas uses and just tried to learn to live with their performance. But, I think it is the motors that are annoying me. Since the bulk of my locomotives are Kato or older Atlas, it's extremely annoying when I run one of the newer, slower Atlas engines. I actually like (or am used to) the performance of those Kato and older Atlas engines.
 
Are there any CVs I should try to work with to try to get these engines to operate closer to the Kato or older Atlas engines, or is that a lost cause with these?

Failing that, can these Atlas motors be replaced with Kato motors. If anyone wants to trade a few Kato motors for my Atlas Scale Speed motors, I would be open to considering that.

Looking for advice and suggestions!

Thanks,
Bart

[peteski]

Bart,
No motor will take such long time to come up to speed (neither Atlas nor Kato).

What you are describing sounds to me like those locos have the acceleration momentum enabled (CV3) and set to a fairly high value.  If the loco also takes a long time to coast down after you set the throttle's speed to zero, then the deceleration momentum (CV4) is also set high.  If you can read both of those CVs, I would be curious as to what they are set to.  Or just program both CV3 and CV4 to zero and the loco should instantaneously respond to the throttle settings.

[SkipGear]

Start with checking CV-3 and CV-4, acceleration and deceleration rates. Set them both to 0 and the speed should respond to your throttle changes instantly. The higher that CV-3 and CV-4 are set, the slower the throttle will react. Normal settings are around 2-4 depending on the loco to get smooth realistic acceleration and deceleration.

Locomotives are big heavy things and take time and distance to start and stop. The momentum CV's help simulate this.

If CV-3 and 4 are set to zero and it still takes a long time to get them moving, then look at the motors.

[SkipGear]

Peteski beat me but we are both onto the same idea. Check the decoders first.

[Bart1701]

Bart,
No motor will take such long time to come up to speed (neither Atlas nor Kato).

What you are describing sounds to me like those locos have the acceleration momentum enabled (CV3) and set to a fairly high value.  If the loco also takes a long time to coast down after you set the throttle's speed to zero, then the deceleration momentum (CV4) is also set high.  If you can read both of those CVs, I would be curious as to what they are set to.  Or just program both CV3 and CV4 to zero and the loco should instantaneously respond to the throttle settings.

I was pretty sure the momentum was set to 0 for both acceleration and deceleration, but I just double checked to be sure. They were both set to 0. To confirm I had no momentum, I opened the throttle to about 60 on my display. The engine leaped into action without any momentum delay. I let it run for a little and then I then closed the throttle all the way and the engine stopped on a dime.

Bart

[SkipGear]

It sounds like they are running correctly then.

Most people run trains too fast. Kato gearing and motors make that even more extreme. I don't remember the actual numbers but a kato SD70Ace on 12v (no decoder) is running close to 200 scale mph. That's great for a shinkanzen (sp?) Bullet train, not so good for a train of autorack or well cars.

The atlas motors allow you to use your whole range of throttle and generally top out at a more realistic 80-120 smph. If you are doing switching this expanded throttle range gives you more control at yard speeds.   

[POVC]

I have noticed this issue on Atlas engine that have sat for a while (several months) without being run.  If break out some different engines to run on my club's N-trak layout, I may have to put the throttle at 50-60 to get them moving at a reasonable speed.  After a few laps I can usually start backing the throttle off and by the end of the run session they do the same actual speed with the throttle in the 20-30 range.  My suspicion is that the grease in the bearings hardens over time, and until it warms up and lubricates properly, the engine runs slow.

Tim

[peteski]

I was pretty sure the momentum was set to 0 for both acceleration and deceleration, but I just double checked to be sure. They were both set to 0. To confirm I had no momentum, I opened the throttle to about 60 on my display. The engine leaped into action without any momentum delay. I let it run for a little and then I then closed the throttle all the way and the engine stopped on a dime.

Bart

I'm confused Bart.  If I understand it correctly, CV3 and CV4 were already set to zero when you checked?  And after checking you tried to run the loco, and the problem of slow ramp-up to speed was resolved?

[glakedylan]

OP would seem like a DCC locomotive running with DC power to track?
I feel somewhat silly in asking, but the info and Q&A (if I am reading all completely)
does not indicate that a DCC system is being used to power the train.
Just a thought after reading the posts.

//////nevermind//////

Sincerely
Gary

[peteski]

OP would seem like a DCC locomotive running with DC power to track?


I feel somewhat silly in asking, but the info and Q&A (if I am reading all completely)
does not indicate that a DCC system is being used to power the train.


Just a thought after reading the posts.


Sincerely
Gary

The original post mentions "I am running a Digitrax system and have one of their radio equipped Super Throttles.".

[glakedylan]

mea culpa
and i did go back and read through several times
dyslexia can be a PITA


nevermind 

[peteski]

mea culpa
and i did go back and read through several times
dyslexia can be a PITA

nevermind 

Don't be too hard on yourself. I have been caught not carefully reading a post, missing some important information more often that I care to admit.  I'm not dyslexic - just not concentrating sufficiently.

[vt_railroad_guy]

I run DC so this may not apply, but I know my Atlas locos run slow until they warm up a bit.  After 10 minutes or so of running laps, they will run roughly 15-20% faster than on cold start. Room temperature runs between 50 and 60 degrees through the winter, so that may influence my observations as well.

[rrjim1]

I would suggest you completely clean your locos to remove any old lube. Then apply a very light oil. I do this will all my locos even high speed Kato locos. I also use Digitrax and its a great system. If you want to trade motors I have a lot of Kato motors that I have removed and replaced with a superior Atlas scale speed motor.         

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[ns737]

rrjim1  do you happen to have a f3/7  Kato motor. I am in need of one.