Author Topic: Best Of The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread  (Read 18250 times)

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rodsup9000

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #390 on: September 07, 2021, 04:58:31 PM »
0
Tail stock holds flat until dry. This technique is often used in clock and watchmaking.  I expect there is a indicator tip to facilitate measuring run out  of the gear.
Duh, I wasn't thinking of that. 
Rodney

My Feather River Canyon in N-scale
http://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31585.0

mmagliaro

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #391 on: September 07, 2021, 05:03:44 PM »
0
I had forgotten that these particular gear has that raised smooth area behind it.
Yep... That's where I'd bet my chips.  I could certainly grab that in a collet, and then drill.



u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #392 on: September 08, 2021, 01:40:37 AM »
+1
I re-measured the gear, and my first measure was correct.

The worm gear measures 4.99 mm.

According to this nice gear calculator I came across....
https://www.technobotsonline.com/gear-size-calculator.html

Enter
4.99 mm
and 18 teeth....

and you get nothing.

But the teeth are probably worn a bit....  so enter 5.00 mm with 18 teeth...
And you get a mod size of .25

I went to a local machine/CNC shop today in town.
I asked if they can make gears.

They can--- if I buy about 1,000.
 :scared:


Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #393 on: September 08, 2021, 01:57:58 AM »
+1
I liked Chris' suggested website.  Thanks @Chris333

http://www.narrow-garage.com/NarrowGarage.html#Gear

I need a right hand worm.
and a right hand gear.

They don't have exactly what I have, but I'm guessing all  mod .25 gears work together, no matter the size or number of teeth.

I translated what I think I want from their page.  Here's what I'm probably going to order.

NG-P202H
M0.25 Right helical gear with 20 teeth. Made of phosphorus bronze. Outer diameter 5.5 mm, reference circle 5 mm, shaft hole diameter 3 mm, length 2.5 mm Contains 2 pieces.      550 yen

NG-P201H
M0.25 Helical gear with 16 teeth. Made of phosphorus bronze. Outer diameter 4.5 mm, reference circle 4 mm, shaft hole diameter 2 mm, length 2.5 mm Contains 2 pieces.       506 yen     


NG-P200
M0.25 right worm gear. Made of nickel silver. Outer diameter 3.4 mm, shaft hole diameter 1.5 mm, length 5 mm Contains 2 pieces.      528 yen

You can also buy one worm and gear set:
NG-P201      770 yen
NG-P202        792 yen

As far as very very rough estimating of price, 1 Yen is in the neighborhood of a penny.    So 528 Yen is about 5 bucks.

So for about $31 plus shipping, I can get:

4 worms and 3 of each gear.

The nickel-silver worm is a different material (good) and it is almost identical to the Atlas worm I just installed as an experiment.  Same diameter (3.4 mm) and same 1.5 mm shaft.  It’s a little shorter (5 mm vs 7 mm).  This worm will be larger than the stock worm.

Now, since these gears are not the same exact size as mine,
there may be fit issues.   By getting a gear larger than mine and smaller than mine, it might be that one may just work.

But if not, the mounting screw hole will need to be moved.   To do that, I would just create a new mounting plate.

Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

peteski

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #394 on: September 08, 2021, 02:32:26 AM »
0
5.5mm with 3mm hole, and 4.5mm with 2mm hole? Interesting. Those gears seem to have rather large holes.
. . . 42 . . .

Chris333

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #395 on: September 08, 2021, 03:25:05 AM »
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They are holding an order for me right now till next week to get something else in stock and just ship once. Shipping is 3000 yen for my order. So you need to keep that in mind. Takashi Tsukuno is who I always end up talking to. He even ordered in other products from Japan that he doesn't carry at his shop and sent them to me.

You might try looking on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165022701066
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 03:28:00 AM by Chris333 »

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #396 on: September 08, 2021, 03:31:49 AM »
0
PM sent, Chris.
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #397 on: September 08, 2021, 10:22:15 AM »
0
Once again, for documenting purposes:

The stock Overland Shay items are:

Worm, right hand, 3 mm dia, mod .25
worm gear, helical, right hand, 5 mm dia, mod .25, 18 teeth
Cylinder head gear, helical, left hand, 5 mm dia, mod .25, 18 teeth.

I've begun to learn a bit about gears from this project.
For example, module calculation  mod=outside dia / teeth
a calculator: https://www.technobotsonline.com/gear-size-calculator.html

Also, right and left hand:


« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 10:41:36 AM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #398 on: September 08, 2021, 10:25:49 AM »
+1
5.5mm with 3mm hole, and 4.5mm with 2mm hole? Interesting. Those gears seem to have rather large holes.

Yes they do.

But that's good if a brass tube insert will be used.

Also, the 3mm hole is awfully tempting for me to add two  1x3x1 mm ball bearing micro-bearings.

Since Chris has an order awaiting a part, he's graciously letting me tag onto his order and I'll split the shipping with him.

Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #399 on: September 08, 2021, 10:40:41 AM »
+1
At this point:

--I'm doubtful the spur gears from Poland will be helpful.   But I'm still interested to see them when they come in.

--Good solution 1:   Send the worm gear to someone to drill out for K&S brass tubing.  Then, stock frame screw hole will be expanded from M1.4 to M1.6.  Gear will be mounted with washers, M1.6 screw and a tube.   A nickel silver worm  will be added with the 1.5x3x2 bearings with scratchbuilt bearing retainers- this worm should be more enduring than the brass worms that die there.

--Good solution 2a (doubtful):  One of the new Japanese gears works in the stock mounting holes.  Mount new nickel silver worm on bearings with retainers.

--Good solution 2b: create a new motor mount plate (3/64" brass).  Drill new holes for Japanese  worm gear and bearing retainers.    Mount new worm and gears.  I like using the smaller 16 tooth gear to give just a little more speed.  Right now the little coreless motor pushed the Shay at a max speed of about 7.4 smph.  Adding a smaller gear will increase that just a tiny amount. (say about 11% to 8.5 smph)

Since I have more than one Shay, I may try both solutions.




Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

mmagliaro

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #400 on: September 08, 2021, 08:56:24 PM »
0
I re-measured the gear, and my first measure was correct.

The worm gear measures 4.99 mm.

According to this nice gear calculator I came across....
https://www.technobotsonline.com/gear-size-calculator.html

Enter
4.99 mm
and 18 teeth....

and you get nothing.

But the teeth are probably worn a bit....  so enter 5.00 mm with 18 teeth...
And you get a mod size of .25

I went to a local machine/CNC shop today in town.
I asked if they can make gears.

They can--- if I buy about 1,000.
 :scared:

They are just doing this:
mod x (numTeeth + 2) = outer diam

or
outer diam
--------------         = mod
(numTeeth + 2)

4.99
-------    = mod 0.2495
18+2

Clearly mod 0.25  Their web calculator is just being fussy.