Author Topic: Problems with DCC  (Read 2009 times)

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Steveruger45

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2019, 09:29:06 AM »
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Male train makes a good point especially if your power cab is an older version.
See this link and at the bottom are some other links to related info.  Plus there is a link to ask questions.

Good luck.

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201414309-What-Power-Cab-version-do-I-have-
Steve
Atascocita, Texas

peteski

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2019, 12:31:57 PM »
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Could the problem be speed-step mismatch between the decoder inside that loco, and the throttle (28-128 vs. 14)?

What brand is the decoder which seems to have functioning sound, but the motor doesn't run?

EDIT:  Whether you just want to get some basic info on DCC, or want to become proficient in understanding it, I recommend visiting and browsing https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home.  Select any topics on the left hand side (there is an entire section on NCE which will show up after you click on "NCE Info"). The site might not be most up to date, but I still find it very useful.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 01:03:08 PM by peteski »
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davefoxx

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2019, 12:56:03 PM »
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Pete's theory is worth checking.  I'm also wondering if the statement that the locomotive responds to speed changes here, but not there, could have anything to do with sufficient feeders to the track, since the track has been determined to be clean.  If the decoder cannot receive the DCC signal properly, you'll get no response.

Hope this helps,
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Hawghead

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2019, 01:37:15 PM »
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Quote
Do NOT do a PowerCab reset unless you are sure that the PowerCab has the Version 1.65B chip in it!

Would you believe version 1.28, this set is almost 10 years old.

Quote
the locomotive responds to speed changes here, but not there, could have anything to do with sufficient feeders to the track,

The track is 9' long, three pieces of Micro Engineering code 55 flex with all rail connectors soldered.  I would think a single feeder would be sufficient but will add a set for each piece.

Quote
Could the problem be speed-step mismatch between the decoder inside that loco, and the throttle (28-128 vs. 14)?

What brand is the decoder which seems to have functioning sound, but the motor doesn't run?

I've tried both 28-128 speed-step with no difference.  The engine that has functioning sound but won't move is a Blackstone K-27 with Tsunami sound decoder.

Thanks,
Scott
There's a prototype for everything.
If you can't make it perfect, make it adjustable.
DCC is not plug-n-play.

Steveruger45

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2019, 02:16:22 PM »
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Have you tried set up the power cab for 14 speed step?
Steve
Atascocita, Texas

peteski

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2019, 03:39:52 PM »
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Would you believe version 1.28, this set is almost 10 years old.

The track is 9' long, three pieces of Micro Engineering code 55 flex with all rail connectors soldered.  I would think a single feeder would be sufficient but will add a set for each piece.

I've tried both 28-128 speed-step with no difference.  The engine that has functioning sound but won't move is a Blackstone K-27 with Tsunami sound decoder.

Thanks,
Scott

Scott,
could you be more specific about what sounds work?  Is it only the sound effects not dependent on the loco's speed (like whistle, bell, coal shoveling, coupler clank, etc. that work, or do you also hear chuffs increasing with frequency depending on the speed step dialed up on the throttle?  Or while the other sounds work, there are no chuffs generated at all?

Yes, one track feed should be sufficient in your setup (rail joiners are soldered).  Are you sure the railhead is clean (especially important if it was weathered track).  Assuming that the rail joints are made properly, not cold solder joints.
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Hawghead

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2019, 12:57:56 PM »
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Pete,

All the sound effects not effected by the engine's movement work.  Whistle, bell, coupler, water stop, air pumps, even the dynamo comes on when I select the headlight although the headlight itself doesn't come on.  No chuff sounds at all.  I seem to recall that the early Blackstone engines equipped with the original tsunami sound decoders had cams to sync the chuff, so I wouldn't expect the engine to chuff if it wasn't moving.

Thanks,
Scott
There's a prototype for everything.
If you can't make it perfect, make it adjustable.
DCC is not plug-n-play.

woodone

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2019, 01:29:53 PM »
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I am going with dirty track! MAKE SURE its clean. use a bright boy.  If you can run the loco a short distance, try holding it back and let the wheels slip on the track. Move it back and fort with out pressing down too hard, to see if it continues to run. Having the 1.28 version should not hurt the running with the Power Cab. If your track has been laying around has long has the Power Cab, you might have some corrosion that is barely visible. 
Like a clear coat of paint you can't see and is tough to get off.
I would get the new version Power Cab chip has soon has you can. 

Hawghead

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2019, 02:12:05 PM »
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I am going with dirty track! MAKE SURE its clean. use a bright boy.  If you can run the loco a short distance, try holding it back and let the wheels slip on the track. Move it back and fort with out pressing down too hard, to see if it continues to run. Having the 1.28 version should not hurt the running with the Power Cab. If your track has been laying around has long has the Power Cab, you might have some corrosion that is barely visible. 
Like a clear coat of paint you can't see and is tough to get off.
I would get the new version Power Cab chip has soon has you can.

I just took a new piece of track, cleaned it, cleaned the drivers, soldered two 16 gauge leads to the track and hooked them up directly to the Power Cab power panel, still no change.  I'm now considering sending in the system to NCE and have them check it out.

Thanks,
Scott
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 02:15:59 PM by Hawghead »
There's a prototype for everything.
If you can't make it perfect, make it adjustable.
DCC is not plug-n-play.

peteski

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2019, 02:25:05 PM »
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Pete,

All the sound effects not effected by the engine's movement work.  Whistle, bell, coupler, water stop, air pumps, even the dynamo comes on when I select the headlight although the headlight itself doesn't come on.  No chuff sounds at all.  I seem to recall that the early Blackstone engines equipped with the original tsunami sound decoders had cams to sync the chuff, so I wouldn't expect the engine to chuff if it wasn't moving.

Thanks,
Scott

Hmmm . . . is it possible that the Blackstone's motor and headlight simply are disconnected from the decoder?

As for the other loco, I also think it is caused by intermittent electric pickup.  If the track is clean, then maybethe loco's wheel treads, or the wheel wipers are oxidized.

Most (if  not all) decoders come with DC-operation mode enabled. Do you own a DC throttle?  Try running those locos under DC power.  However, many older DC throttles produce unfiltered DC to the track, and some decoders do not work well with that. Instead of a DC throttle, you could try using a fresh 9V battery to supply DC power.  Just touch it to the loco's wheels, or to the track the loco is sitting on (make sure to first disconnect the DCC system).  But a 9V battery might not have enough voltage to activate the sound decoder (but should supply plenty of voltage to run a non-sound decoder).

Can you read any of either model's CV values (when using Program on Programming Track mode of the Power Cab)?
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peteski

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2019, 02:29:03 PM »
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Thanks for the responses,

I'm leaning toward something wrong with the Power Cab as both locomotives exhibit similar problems 

1. one does not respond to throttle commands correctly and one doesn't respond to throttle commands at all. (both throttle command issues.)
2. neither of the headlights function.

Thanks,
Scott

I disagree about similar symptoms - each loco's symptom  is quite different.  This is a strange one.  BTW, I know it has been mentioned few times already, but  . . . make sure the track and loco's wheels are REALLY, REALLY clean).   :)
--- Peteski de Snarkski

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Jbub

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2019, 03:00:07 PM »
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Have the decoder's had a factory reset? Usually setting cv8  to 8 and resetting the power?
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Hawghead

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2019, 03:16:57 PM »
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I've decided to send the whole kit and caboodle back to NCE.  It is, after all, almost 10 years old and they can check it all out and can install the new firmware chip at the same time.  I cleaned the wheels and hooked the Power Cab directly to a piece of track that I cleaned thoroughly without any change.  If nothing else it will eliminate the system as the cause and I'll know I got ripped off by two different people.

Thanks,
Scott
 
There's a prototype for everything.
If you can't make it perfect, make it adjustable.
DCC is not plug-n-play.

woodone

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2019, 04:06:27 PM »
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If you will try this before you return. Put the loco on your track. Don’t hook the track power up just yet!
Make sure all wheels are on the rails ! Plug the Power Cab power supply in. NO HOOK UP  to the rails.
Now press the left lower button (PROG/ESC) four times- the display should read use program track- hit inter.
Display should read PROG TRK- just under that is 1=STD. 2=CV 3=REG.
NOW hook up the track power from the panel to your test track. ( BTW) you should see a red LED on the panel shinning red. Now hit 1 for STD. Should take a few seconds but the display should read back to you a number.
Depending on which decoder is in stalled. Like 141 on the Blackstone.
If you see, can’t read cv —- you are not getting power to the decoder. Rails,wheels or a bad connection.

peteski

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Re: Problems with DCC
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2019, 06:28:47 PM »
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I doubt the Power Cab is defective. It sends DCC signal to the rails, and even controls the addresses both locos are set to. It intermittently runs one loco, and controls sound functions of the other loco. I really think that both locos are problematic.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

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