Teach me about the D&H in the 80s

[Point353]

Another B&O "survivor" from 1990:


http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo6541m.jpg

[Iain]

You need a pair of sharks.

[davefoxx]

You need a pair of sharks.

The remaining pair of Baldwin Sharks were off the roster by 1978, so I doubt this fits into Ed's plans.

DFF

[peteski]

. . . linger longer . . .

Try to say that 10 times fast. 

When I used to roam the B&M (um, Guilford) yard in Somerville, MA in the mid-80s, I recall seeing some D&H GP 38-2 mixed with the B&M locos.

[wm3798]

I remember sitting at Knecht Ave. in Sowebo watching for the D&H man on Friday nights in the early/mid 80s.  While I don't remember the specifics of the motive power, I don't remember seeing any Alcos on the D&H before my first trip to Harrisburg in 79-80 where they were all on lines going north.  I'd say everything on Amtrak would have been the later model stuff.

If your concept has the D&H routed over the NC, it would make complete sense, since north of Harrisburg it used the Buffalo line to get out of town.  But, unless you put an engine terminal in Baltimore or York, there's no reason for power other than that allowed on the NEC to operate south of Enola.

If Windsor street remains the epicenter of your operation, though, there's no reason the D&H would refrain from sending their more archaic power at least that far, perhaps on a local turn out of Enola, while the high price stuff would go on through.  Given the "fair competition" clause of the arrangement, you could even surmise that the D&H would have its own local business out of Windsor Street...

I never went up the corridor during that era, so I'm assuming the D&H traffic all came down the Port Road, with anything going to New York traveling by way of the aforementioned B&O trackage rights.  So if in Ed's World the Port Road got wiped out by Agnes, Harrisburg trains would go through Lutherville and Parkton rather than Perryville and Columbia.

Perhaps a transfer between the B&O routed trains and NC could be had at Carroll Park or someplace, but I would think all of that sorting would have been done at Pot Yards, obviating such a need.

Just my thoughts.
Lee

[conrail1973]

I have started building up a library on Delaware and Hudson books, and Bridge Lines Blues - Delaware and Hudson 1976 - 1986 by Hal Reiser would be a great reference for what you are looking for.  In the book, they have the following freight service guide that was issued in 1976:

http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/D&H/D&H%20Freight%20Service%20Guide%20copy%204-22-1976.pdf

From there, I would look at RW-6 (Rouses Point - Enola)/WR-7 (Enola - Rouses Point).  The book also talks about Guilford symbols RPPY (Rouses Point - Potomac Yard) and PYRP (Potomac Yard - Rouses Point).  This book is great because it also discusses the traffic loads for each symbol (newsprint/chemicals/paper going south and CN/CP empties/kaolin/mixed freight going north).

It also goes into nice detail on DH operations on former Pennsy Lines operated by CR.  It mentioned that GP39-2s 7611-7620 were equipped with cab signals for NE Corridor operations and everything else motive power wise would run into Enola.  From a modeling and historical perspective, the DH had a very interesting run after the formation of CR.

Thanks,

Adam

[Dave V]

In retrospect there was still so much evidence of the golden age of railroading around in the 80s.  Cabooses, standard-cab diesels, plenty of boxcars (including the occasional 40 footer), hoppers with actual hoppers on the bottom, and so much variety in roadname.  Even along the right of way there were still towers, railroad-specific signaling systems, and branchlines yet to fall victim to mega mergers and cost cutting.

Yep...  My father taught me growing up that the railroad scene in the 70s and 80s held no charm compared to his childhood when keystone-nosed beasts built by the PRR Juniata Shops belching volcanic plumes rocketed through town with Tuscan cars obediently in tow.  And yet, compared to today...early Conrail and the D&H of the 80s were still railroads in the traditional sense, doing the things that railroads had done in almost the same way as it had been done since the mid-nineteenth century.

[learmoia]

30 years from now (likely less larger railroads, 1 to 0 man crews), our kids will look back on today's railroading in the same lense..

~Ian

[Dave V]

30 years from now (likely less larger railroads, 1 to 0 man crews), our kids will look back on today's railroading in the same lense..

~Ian

I only wish I'd not been so enthralled by my father's own experiences...I might have appreciated my own some more.

My father also laments as he watches my RGS take shape that he would have been old enough to ride it.  Colorado was a long way away from home, though, and he was only a kid when the rails were at last lifted from lofty Lizard Head.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

You need a pair of sharks.

Let me tell ya sister, I've thought about it. I've definitely thought about it.

But not yet. I need to focus on the plausible first.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I have started building up a library on Delaware and Hudson books, and Bridge Lines Blues - Delaware and Hudson 1976 - 1986 by Hal Reiser would be a great reference for what you are looking for.  In the book, they have the following freight service guide that was issued in 1976:

http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/D&H/D&H%20Freight%20Service%20Guide%20copy%204-22-1976.pdf

From there, I would look at RW-6 (Rouses Point - Enola)/WR-7 (Enola - Rouses Point).  The book also talks about Guilford symbols RPPY (Rouses Point - Potomac Yard) and PYRP (Potomac Yard - Rouses Point).  This book is great because it also discusses the traffic loads for each symbol (newsprint/chemicals/paper going south and CN/CP empties/kaolin/mixed freight going north).

It also goes into nice detail on DH operations on former Pennsy Lines operated by CR.  It mentioned that GP39-2s 7611-7620 were equipped with cab signals for NE Corridor operations and everything else motive power wise would run into Enola.  From a modeling and historical perspective, the DH had a very interesting run after the formation of CR.

Thanks,

Adam

Oh damn, yes, that's very helpful.

I think the answer, then, is GP39s on the point with some other stuff (likely 38s) in the middle.
If I need helpers that don't touch the NEC though, I might just find a use for a HH C420 and a chop nosed RS3 after all. Hmm...

And yes, the D&H in the 80s is fascinating. That's why I'm finding it so interesting getting into it and am looking to make it a part of future NCR efforts.

Update: the book is on its way. Thanks!

[Lenny53]

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D&H subsidiary Napierville Junction Railway ran into CP's St. Luc yard.  I'm totally stoked Bluford Car Shops produced NJ bi-centennial transfer van #39 to go with my Atlas U23B. 

[C855B]

Oooo! Love the tell-tales!

[EL3632]

Don't know exactly what you are aiming for in terms of sticking exactly to the prototype or not, but here is a fun lashup, with available equipment given some of the details above:

This first one is all Atlas GP units. Going through each one:

Stock Atlas GP39-2 7610. These units were delivered to the D&H shortly before CR day 1. For the GP39-2s, the 76xx series was built new for D&H, 74xx series is ex-RDG. 7610 is one number off from being cab signal equipped (of course), but depending on how much you want to stick exactly to the prototype, you can say it has cab signals. If you do decide to change the number, large logo lightning stripe may be appropriate, check prototype photos to see if any locos in your number scheme were repainted.

Stock Atlas GP38-2 7319. This one was released several years ago, and it is hard(er) to find, siblings 7317 & 7318 are just as difficult. These are ex-LV units received from the CR merger. Blue was applied randomly as they went in for major shopping. They did not, as far as I can tell, carry lightning stripe until they were renumbered in the early 90s.

Stock Atlas GP39-2 RDG 3402 patched to D&H 7402. The ex-Reading GP39-2 units were in various paint schemes by the mid 80s, 7412 is a good one, as it was never repainted, just patched. The decals used for this one were an HO number for the 7, don't know which one exactly, and the Tichy D&H/C&O hopper set for the actual patches. A friend of mine in my club patched it for me, so I am unsure of how exactly the job was done. If you would like more detail photos of this one, I can upload some.

Stock Atlas GP38-2 LV 310. Haven't gotten around to patching this one yet. Also holding out hope for LV 322, as that one actually went to D&H (310 went to CR). Either way, the ex-LV GP38-2 units were painted more so than the RDG ones, so check to make sure that the number you choose to patch was not repainted by your modeling date.

Finally, stock Atlas GP39-2 7603. Basically the same description as 7610 mentioned above.

That is just one wacko lashup you could possibly have modeling the D&H at this time period, I specifically model 1981. The later you go, the more foreign power you will get, primarily Guilford roads, MEC, BM, etc..., but also BAR, NW (also leased pre CR), CR (GE B23-7/B36-7 is what I have seen the most in photos), etc..., depending on what was on lease at the time.

[conrail1973]

It appears that Sharks were used primarily on the Sayre Turn prior to the start-up of CR and on locals way up north.  The GP39-2s are definitely the way to go along for your layout but then it depends how far into the 80s you want to model because the 7600s were rebuilt in 84 and transferred to the Boston and Maine by Guilford   I like the stenciling job that @EL3632 showed on the 7400s which would be a nice project for those units, and it would be nice to see the 7400s in blue and yellow scheme that Atlas has in HO Scale.  I think all of the Morning Sun Books are excellent resources for what you are looking for.  They even have a great ebook which was definitely worth the $20.