Author Topic: What caused this failure?  (Read 1140 times)

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garethashenden

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What caused this failure?
« on: April 13, 2019, 05:26:03 PM »
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Yesterday I started the printer printing and went to work. When I came home it had mostly printed and then failed. I’ve had a couple of failures where the parts never attach to the build plate, I’ve fixed this by relevelling the plate and cleaning the cured resin off the bottom of the vat. But this seems different somehow. I’m wondering if I need to change the film on the bottom, it’s  the original one and I’ve done a good amount of printing with it. What do you think?


AlwaysSolutions

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 05:56:54 PM »
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Hard to say, really.  Just examining the picture it looks like it failed in the center of the build plate early on, then as the model grew the weight that was being supported by the outer sides eventually pulled it off the plate.  When your vat is completely clean does the center of your FEP look worse than the perimeters?  Same question for the build plate.  Is this a one time failure or do you see this time and again?  Try moving your models either forward or rearward to see if that affects adhesion to the plate.  It may be the center of your FEP is worn out and not releasing as easily as it used to.  Let us know what all you try so we can learn from this particular type of failure.

Mike

Mark W

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2019, 06:11:39 PM »
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I don't think that's related to a FEP issue.   If a spot is worn in the FEP, you'll know it; it looks like a hole was torn through the print where that spot is.  On that topic, you can feel the texture difference between good and bad FEP, even through the Nitrile glove in a vat full of resin.   Good FEP is smooth and slick, anything else is bad.  Since FEP doesn't wear out all at once, you'll be able to feel any 'dull' spots from the surrounding slick film. 

Back to your print.  It does seem like something happened from the center out.  It's almost like the opposite of a 'hot spot', where you'd normally expect the edges to fail as the UV intensity falls off.  But, looking at your platforms, it could simply be part orientation.  And I wonder if there is just not enough platform to begin with. 

Clean up the part and let's see the full aftermath.  That will help us understand the root cause.
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Chris333

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 07:03:33 PM »
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Could it just be the supports are thin that it started tearing away and once it wasn't connected turned out like it did?

Stephane

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2019, 07:18:45 PM »
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What are your base layer exposure settings?  The very first time I printed with my printer, it was the Anycubic lattice cube, and it failed immediately.  I had used the default 8 layers at 40 seconds each (0.05mm layers).  After that, I've used 8x80 seconds, and never had a print detach from the build plate since.

garethashenden

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2019, 09:37:42 PM »
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What are your base layer exposure settings?  The very first time I printed with my printer, it was the Anycubic lattice cube, and it failed immediately.  I had used the default 8 layers at 40 seconds each (0.05mm layers).  After that, I've used 8x80 seconds, and never had a print detach from the build plate since.

I don’t remember off the top of my head, but something like 100 seconds.

I don't think that's related to a FEP issue.   If a spot is worn in the FEP, you'll know it; it looks like a hole was torn through the print where that spot is.  On that topic, you can feel the texture difference between good and bad FEP, even through the Nitrile glove in a vat full of resin.   Good FEP is smooth and slick, anything else is bad.  Since FEP doesn't wear out all at once, you'll be able to feel any 'dull' spots from the surrounding slick film. 

Back to your print.  It does seem like something happened from the center out.  It's almost like the opposite of a 'hot spot', where you'd normally expect the edges to fail as the UV intensity falls off.  But, looking at your platforms, it could simply be part orientation.  And I wonder if there is just not enough platform to begin with. 

Clean up the part and let's see the full aftermath.  That will help us understand the root cause.

I’ll clean it off in the morning and post a picture. It may have failed in the middle, but it is two separate parts in one file. The reason I was wondering about the film is that it seems to have started fine, but then something pulled them down a bit, or something like that. Both of these parts have printed fine on their own with similar platforms. But this time I had a problem.

Lemosteam

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 01:50:09 PM »
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So who is going to be the first to set up a webcam to watch their printings progress while they are away?   :trollface: :trollface:

As a bonus the video can be rewound, perhaps to the very point of failure to see what caused it.

Don't laugh, my nephew does this intentionally, besides, it can make for a very cool time-lapse vid.




DKS

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 01:55:20 PM »
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As a bonus the video can be rewound, perhaps to the very point of failure to see what caused it.

This actually sounds very practical.
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Stephane

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 01:58:58 PM »
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Depending on the size of the print, the webcam may never actually see anything with an Anycubic Photon.  In some of my prints, the first 2 hours the build plate barely reaches the lip of the vat meaning the print is obscured from view.

Lemosteam

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 02:09:18 PM »
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In-fluid Go-Pro for an FEP POV or mount it to the build plate.

Mark W

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 02:11:53 PM »
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So who is going to be the first to set up a webcam to watch their printings progress while they are away?   :trollface: :trollface:

As a bonus the video can be rewound, perhaps to the very point of failure to see what caused it.

Don't laugh, my nephew does this intentionally, besides, it can make for a very cool time-lapse vid.

I would absolutely do that if I had a full volume 9+ hour print.  But as Stephane mentions, 90% of N scale vehicle sized prints will finish before they're even visible. 
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Chris333

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 02:35:15 PM »
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Folks on Facebook set up webcams, but also like 95% of them seem to be worried about the resin smell.

wcfn100

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 02:44:06 PM »
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Folks on Facebook set up webcams, but also like 95% of them seem to be worried about the resin smell.

Unfortunately the smell is what mothballed mine for the time being.  I need to find a way to vent the oder while also not being at home (my wife doesn't like the bathroom fan running hours on end).


Jason

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2019, 04:26:43 PM »
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In-fluid Go-Pro for an FEP POV or mount it to the build plate.

Fine for transparent resins but useless for opaque ones like black, gray, or white.
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Chris333

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Re: What caused this failure?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 04:31:00 PM »
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Unfortunately the smell is what mothballed mine for the time being.  I need to find a way to vent the oder while also not being at home (my wife doesn't like the bathroom fan running hours on end).


Jason

Some say if you just un-plug the fan it will keep from blowing the smell outside the box. I only smell it when I open the door and it's faint.