Author Topic: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC  (Read 2176 times)

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Jim Starbuck

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Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« on: March 12, 2019, 12:02:16 AM »
+4
I know Chris started a thread inquiring about this but I started a new one in case we wanted to include it in the sound install thread.

Here’s my attempt:

The Loksound 73100 is narrow enough for the MP15 hood and overall length is almost the same as the stock Lenz decoder with the LEDs on the ends.
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Looking things over I found there would be enough vertical space if the 73100 was installed inverted keeping the components in the space below the board. It’s a bit deceiving in the photos but the decoder does not engage in the frame slots for track power pick up. Inverted it rests on top of the motor and just fits between the frame halves.
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The tabs on the motor were desoldered and replaced with orange and gray ESU wire which is nice and thin.
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The front of the motor opening on the top of the frame has a thin cross rib that the space between the first and second components on the decoder will saddle over. I’m going to rework this and remove this thin rib altogether to remove any chance of shorting components to the frame but this was how the first attempt looked. I did file the cross rib slightly thinner to allow more room between the components. The rib was also covered with kapton tape well before any voltage was applied anywhere.
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I used a round needle file to make grooves on the inside of the motor opening to allow the motor leads to come up alongside their respective pads.
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I filed slots for the pickup wires to reach out and solder to the brass strips which also allows the sill to seat down all the way.
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I carved out a bit of frame material on the inside of the pickup grove to make room for the pickup wires to route nicely to the pads on the now underside of the board. This was necessary because the board uses all the room between the frame halves. I had to file just a little from the inside of the frame halves there to allow the board to slip down in.
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Long brown speaker wires were soldered to the pads before making the motor and track power connections. Enough slack was left to allow the speaker enclosure to be tucked up into the cab when installing the shell. This is an 8x12 Soberton in a Shapeways by Wutter enclosure. I’m going to shorten the height of the enclosure slightly because it touches the board and the cab roof. I also want to see how it sounds with the speaker pointing down instead of up. I think it was too close to the cab roof to sound really good.
I still need to add the lights but that will be done with 0603 LEDs after the shell is painted. The cab and sill are undecorated and I’m using a Skytop Models hood to make it a Milwaukee MP15AC.
There’s more experimenting to do but so far it looks like everything will fit. There should also be room for caps under the decoder but I haven’t gotten that far yet.
I’m having trouble getting the motor to run though. The sound works fine and it takes programming but no motor.
I had to leave out for work so I’ll revisit when I get home.

EDIT: Removed duplicate attatchment
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 07:15:32 AM by Jim Starbuck »
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peteski

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 01:26:17 AM »
0
Very impressive!  Talking about shoe-horning a decoder in!  :)

BTW,  you should be able to easily delete the unwanted attachment from that post.
Also, if you used the photo gallery instead of attaching photos to the post, it would make it easier to manipulate them. Plus they would be visible to everybody viewing the thread (regardless whether they are logged in or not).  There is a tutorial on posting photos in the Admin/FAQ section of this forum.
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Steveruger45

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 08:18:21 AM »
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Nicely done indeed, Jim.
 It looks like You should be able to use the onboard leds for aux1 and aux 2 for the front and rear lights, they appear to be pretty close to the OEM light positions and should be bright enough I’m thinking.

What is the internal width of the hood on these? 
I’m thinking it may also be possible to put the new v5 micro up front which would give more depth at rear for speaker in the cab area.
Looking forward to seeing the finished project and perhaps a video.

One thought I have on why no motor.  There are two motor pads on the top of the board (now on the bottom on your install) located more or less in the middle. I would check that these are not touching the frame.  Wrapping some kapton tape around the decoder at that location may be beneficial.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 08:56:33 AM by Steveruger45 »
Steve
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jdcolombo

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 09:23:21 AM »
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Excellent, Jim.

Added to master install list.

John C.

cbroughton67

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 09:30:17 AM »
+2
You stole my thunder, Jim!  :lol:
Your install looks a LOT easier than my approach. Are there any clearance issues with the front "light tube?" Is there room for additional capacitors?

Here's my install with a hard-wired LokSound decoder. In addition to milling the frame, I had to do some thinning of the shell ("not for the faint-hearted" is an understatement), and ended up removing the plastic wrap from the decoder as well to make it fit. I had room for a pair of 16v 330uF tantalum caps as well, but the wires had to be routed carefully to get it all to fit. I have a second MP15DC awaiting sound, so I may take your approach on that one.

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Jim Starbuck

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2019, 09:51:07 AM »
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You made it work Chris!
I sure don’t want to steal anyone’s thunder as there are usually many ways to skin a cat. It’s very interesting to see the different approaches to these installs.

I’m not sure about the stock light pipe clearances as I’m using a Skytop Models conversion shell and I’ll be using 0603 LEDs and magnet wire for lighting without the light pipe.
The 73100 doesn’t have on board lights but with it turned over the solder pads are easily accessible.
I like how you’ve got the speaker down on the frame. The 73100 intrudes into the lower portion of the cab a bit using up some of the speaker room. I have an idea that may help that when I get back and can work on this some more.
I think there will be room for caps on mine between the board and frame. We’ll see.
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jdcolombo

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2019, 10:18:15 AM »
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I think Chris's install indicates why the ultimate solution might be what Steve suggested: the new V5 decoder.  If dimensions listed on the retailer web sites are to be believed, then the V5 will be 21mm long (4mm less than the 73800), 10mm wide (no need for shell thinning) and 3.8mm thick (same).   That would make Chris's installation even easier and leave all that room at the back for the speaker firing up into the cab.

But what we don't know is how the wired interface will hook to the new decoder.  It appears that the "wired" version of the V5 micro will simply use a wiring harness that plugs in to the Next18 connector on one end of the board.  OK, but that raises the question of what the thickness of the V5 with the adapter cable will be.  Note that many of our 73800 installations are at an angle - with the thinnest part of the 73800 board over the motor area, and the thickest part hanging out at one end.   This is how Chris has done it, with the decoder itself slightly angled down to the "shelf" area. But now imagine that the "thin" part of the 73800 isn't thin anymore - it has the Next18 connector and adapter plugged in.  If that's how it's going to work, then there likely would not be enough room in the motor area for the decoder to rest on an angle down toward the shelf.  BUT, maybe the new decoder will be short enough that it won't matter - with 4mm less length, perhaps the entire decoder will fit on the "shelf" area where there is plenty of vertical space for additional decoder thickness.

Sigh . . . if only we could get our hands on a REAL V5 micro with the 8-pin wired plug . . . I've ordered 2.  Just waiting.

John C.

BTW, Chris, I've added your install to the master list, too.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 10:24:03 AM by jdcolombo »

reinhardtjh

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2019, 10:45:34 AM »
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Sigh . . . if only we could get our hands on a REAL V5 micro with the 8-pin wired plug . . . I've ordered 2.  Just waiting.

John C.

I've got one of the Next18 and several of the 8-pin wired on order from Bryan at Streamlined BackShop but he's still waiting for them to arrive from ESU (As of this past Sunday when I emailed him).

FYI, he also mentioned that Matt Herman said there will be a V5 version of the 73100 and 73199 as soon as they run out of inventory on the current model.  Apparently there is a backstock.  Maybe because of all the Atlas and IM locos that are delayed due to the factory problems.  the Select Micro (73800, etc) are out of stock at ESU now so all that is available is what is in dealer inventory.

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jdcolombo

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2019, 11:16:08 AM »
0

FYI, he also mentioned that Matt Herman said there will be a V5 version of the 73100 and 73199 as soon as they run out of inventory on the current model.  Apparently there is a backstock.  Maybe because of all the Atlas and IM locos that are delayed due to the factory problems.  the Select Micro (73800, etc) are out of stock at ESU now so all that is available is what is in dealer inventory.

I figured a V5 version of the boards would be coming at some point.  I just hope ESU will add a convenient solder pad for decoder negative so it is easier to add keep alive to the boards.  ESU seemed to think keep alive wasn't necessary/possible in N scale and didn't provide for adding it to the 73100/73199 boards.  I hope Matt has been forwarding them photos of how we all shoe-horn in tantalum chip caps as keep alive devices in N scale!

John C.

cbroughton67

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2019, 11:23:22 AM »
0
According to the ESU website, we'll be waiting until October for the v5 Loksound Micro.

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-5-micro-loksound-5-micro-dcc/
Chris Broughton

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Jim Starbuck

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2019, 11:29:31 AM »
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I figured a V5 version of the boards would be coming at some point.  I just hope ESU will add a convenient solder pad for decoder negative so it is easier to add keep alive to the boards.  ESU seemed to think keep alive wasn't necessary/possible in N scale and didn't provide for adding it to the 73100/73199 boards.  I hope Matt has been forwarding them photos of how we all shoe-horn in tantalum chip caps as keep alive devices in N scale!

John C.

John,

This was my first experience with a 73100.
Without a negative pad, is it possible to add caps with this decoder?

Jim
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cbroughton67

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2019, 11:42:44 AM »
0
John,

This was my first experience with a 73100.
Without a negative pad, is it possible to add caps with this decoder?

Jim
Yes. I added caps to my SD70ACe's using this board. @peteski explains where/how to add them here: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44324.0
Chris Broughton

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Jim Starbuck

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2019, 11:44:17 AM »
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Great!
Thanks Chris

Jim
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tehachapifan

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2019, 12:36:01 PM »
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According to the ESU website, we'll be waiting until October for the v5 Loksound Micro.

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-5-micro-loksound-5-micro-dcc/

Well, that's not very good news if true as previous micro boards are out-of-stock at my usual dealers and it seems to be staying that way. Going to have to do scenery or something else for a while I guess. :RUEffinKiddingMe: ;)

Nice install, BTW! Regarding the new V5 Micro board possibly being the ultimate solution for this particular install, I believe the inside of the MP15DC shell measures less than 10mm, if memory serves, and it gets even narrower where the sand filler castings are seated towards the front....at least the smaller ones that mount from the inside. This said, I was able to squeeze a Zimo MX649 in two of mine without any shell or frame mods but I did have to take off the outer wrapper to do so...probably voiding the warranty.



« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 12:47:23 PM by tehachapifan »
Russ

reinhardtjh

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Re: Loksound 73100 in an N Atlas MP15DC
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2019, 01:56:27 PM »
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According to the ESU website, we'll be waiting until October for the v5 Loksound Micro.

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-5-micro-loksound-5-micro-dcc/

Although nobody has said specifically, I think the "KW 10/2019" means the 10th week of 2019.  If you look at the V5 LokSound they all say "KW 4/2019" or "KW 8/2019" and some have been delivered to Mfg and stores (Tony's Train Exchange is rumored to have stock).

KW is a common German acronym for "Calendar (Kalenderwoche) Week".
      https://www.acronymfinder.com/Kalenderwoche-(German%3A-calendar-week)-(KW).html
John H. Reinhardt
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