New LokSound decoder coming?

[wazzou]

Although V4 decoders will continue to run trains after V5 decoders are introduced, the real question comes down to what happens when one of our installed V4s dies, or we buy a new loco that needs an ESU decoder.  Do we then need to invest in a lot of additional equipment to program V5s? Or, will the existing Lok Programmer work with the V5s, perhaps with software updates?  Will the software updates kill the Lok Prorammer's functionality with the V4s?

The problem is that many (most, all?) manufacturers are mainly thinking about maximizing profits in the short-term, rather than supporting the hobby for the long-term.  The electronics industry is starting to look like the U.S. auto industry in the 1950s, with planned obsolescence.  It just doesn't have "tail fins".

Excellent take IMO.

[kiwi_bnsf]

I have to say that I welcome ESU announcing the Loksound V5. There are some improvements that you can make with new software/firmware on existing hardware, but sometimes new hardware is required.

If the V5 does include additional capacitance, then that would be a worthwhile improvement for me, and would save many people going through the extra effort to install separate capacitors, and reverse engineer where to solder these onto the board.

Progress is inevitable, and it doesn't somehow render the current Loksound V4 decoders unusable. The current ESU website has software still available for products they released in 1999. That doesn't seem like "corporate" behaviour deliberately trying to force their customer base to "refresh" their already purchased products.

I understand that it can cause some gnashing of teeth when a new feature requires new hardware (like Drive Hold requiring Loksound V4), but you always have the option of not implementing the feature on all locos.

I for one would rather see continuous innovation from ESU in this space. Otherwise we'd all be stuck with poorer quality sound.

The existing US DCC incumbents do rather seem to have been caught napping by ESU in the last couple of years. The shift to downloadable sound files, and now the hybrid app/hardware approach to the Ecos Mobile Control II (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=45057.0) represent a step-change for me.

I already have a bunch of V4 locos, and this won't stop me converting the remainder (likely with V5).

Cheers

Tim

[peteski]

If the keep-alive circuit is built onto the decoder, that will greatly increase either its footprint or its thickness. SuperCaps are still fairly large. 

[RBrodzinsky]

Here is a more "official" announcement from ESU (translated from the German).  Matt Herman has indicated that an official USA announcement will be forthcoming.  No mention of the Select line in this

Our 5th generation of LokSound has been developed from scratch again. Thanks to a high performance, 32-Bit microcontroller, we have been able to improve all key features again: LokSound 5 decoders will support up to 10 simultanous sound channels. Each channel will reach HiFi-Quality level thanks to 16 Bit Resolution and 31250 Hz sample frequency. LokSound 5 decoders will bring your model trains to the next level and sound almost like the original.. A 128 Mbit flash memory chip allows for enough capacity to hold the sounds

LokSound 5 decoders offer an advanced B-EMF load control that runs with up to 50 kHz base frequency and is optimized for low-noise operation. This is important for coreless motors such as Faulhaber or Maxon and also for Large scale locomotives. Every LokSound 5 decoder comes with plenty of function outputs and can control servos or SUSI-modules if needed.

Every LokSound 5 decoder is a true Quad-Mode Decoder that talks DCC with RailComPlus and M4 and will be automatically registered with Märklin® command stations. As these decoders do also support Motorola® and Selectrix®, they can be used also with older Digital Command Stations. Even better, every LokSound 5 decoder could also be used with Analog DC or Analog AC controllers (even the small N scale decoder!)

Based on the command station, up to 32 function buttons are supported that can be mapped to any output due to our superior ESU function mapping. Three brake functions and a two-stage load simulation will let you enjoy your model railroad even more.

As there is different scales around, we will offer several LokSound 5 decoder versions:

58315
LokSound 5 L DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", Pinheader with adapter, Retail, Gauge: 0,: Week 05/2019. recommended retail 179,99 €

58410
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 8-pin NEM652, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 04/2019, 99,99 €

58412
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", PluX22, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 08/2019. 99,99 €

58416
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 6-pin NEM651, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 04/2019, 99,99 €

58419
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 21MTC NEM660, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H,0: Week 04/2019, 99,99 €

58449
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 21MTC "MKL", Retail with speaker, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 08/2019. 99,99 €

58513
LokSound 5 XL DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", Screw Terminal, Gauge: G, I,: Week 05/2019, 209,99 €

58515
LokSound 5 XL DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", PInheader, Gauge: G, I,: Week 05/2019, 209,99 €

58810
LokSound 5 micro DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 8-pin NEM652, Retail with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 10/2019, 109,99 €

58814
LokSound 5 micro DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", PluX16, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 10/2019, 109,99 €

58816
LokSound 5 micro DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 6-pin NEM651, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 10/2019, 109,99 €

58818
LokSound 5 micro DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", Next18, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 10/2019, 109,99 €

Further details about the decoders (technical data, Users instructions) as well as an updated sound data base including new LokProgrammer Software version will be published on our website within January 2019.

[Jbub]

It looks like these will be 10 euros more than the 4.0. Current exchange rates put the 109.99 euro micro at 126 bucks msrp. I'm guessing a $116 street price. I really hope they make a select version. Decoders costing that much more than the model is a hard pill to swallow for a hobby at least for some.

[jdcolombo]

It’s possible there will not be an immediate replacement for the Select.  The Select has always been positioned as a “US” product at a lower price point than the V4, and given the number of OEM deals ESU has with Atlas, IM, Bowser, etc., there are good reasons for the Select to stay as-is for now. 

We’ll see.

John C.

[Cajonpassfan]

None of the version descriptions note N, just HO, O and larger scales. What am I missing?
Otto K.

[jdcolombo]

None of the version descriptions note N, just HO, O and larger scales. What am I missing?
Otto K.

The announcement does cover a Loksound 5 Micro.  The Micro is the N scale footprint, presumably replacing the V4 Micro. But that is a wired decoder.  As Rick pointed out, there is no mention of the Select decoder line, or of anything that would replace the 73100 or 73199 board-style decoders.

John C.

[RBrodzinsky]

None of the version descriptions note N, just HO, O and larger scales. What am I missing?
Otto K.

Officially, nothing.  The V4 Micro decoders, per the ESU description, are shown as being for HO.  It is only all us crazy people who have crammed them into N-scale units.

More importantly, and not yet published, will be the dimensions of the new boards.  If footprint and height are any larger, then N is left behind.

[nstars]

A quick read through the German Loksound 5 Manual shows some interesting features for the micro version:
- size 21x10 mm (hopefully that width is rounded off to 10)
- interface always Next18 with adaptor cables to 8 pin, 6 pin or Plux16
- uses existing programmer
- programmer converts V4 files to V5

Marc

[RBrodzinsky]

Wow, if the width is 10.0 vs 10.6, that will be a big benefit for N installs, even if not quite down where we all would like.  And 4 mm shorter is nothing to sneeze at.  Will be interesting to see these wire adapters on the four models of the Micro version.   Haven't seen any numbers about depth, yet

That German manual is interesting:  the micros will have 6 powered output (Front, Rear, Aux 1, Aux 2, Aux 5, Aux 6) and either 1 or 3 logic levels (Aux 3/4/7) depending on model.

[nstars]

Wow, if the width is 10.0 vs 10.6, that will be a big benefit for N installs, even if not quite down where we all would like.  And 4 mm shorter is nothing to sneeze at.  Will be interesting to see these wire adapters on the four models of the Micro version.   Haven't seen any numbers about depth, yet

That German manual is interesting:  the micros will have 6 powered output (Front, Rear, Aux 1, Aux 2, Aux 5, Aux 6) and either 1 or 3 logic levels (Aux 3/4/7) depending on model.

Correct and as they all start as a Next18 decoders you’ll get always all 3 logic levels if you could make a Next18 to wire adapter. Also important to note that the wire adapters are of those flexible PC board type.

Marc

[Jbub]

It also looks like there are two "versions" of the decoder. sbs4dcc.com has them posted already but not in stock. There are two price points, $107 for the micro with multi-protocol (DCC/MM/SX/M4) and $91 for the DCC only protocol. Both have next18 connectors. I'm interested to see what type of adapter boards come along for different loco's

[RBrodzinsky]

The multi-protocol vs DCC only have been around for a while

[Steveruger45]

A quick read through the German Loksound 5 Manual shows some interesting features for the micro version:
- size 21x10 mm (hopefully that width is rounded off to 10)
- interface always Next18 with adaptor cables to 8 pin, 6 pin or Plux16
- uses existing programmer
- programmer converts V4 files to V5

Marc

Hey Marc
10x21mm.  Was there any size given for thickness?.
Although 9.5mm wide would have ideal this looks promising, especially for installs in small switcher locos and May also give us more room in other locos for bigger speakers too.