Author Topic: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout  (Read 1753 times)

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Dave V

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2018, 08:37:06 PM »
0
OK guys, I want to revisit this.  The Tam Valley system is essentially a decoder, and I'd rather not have one of my switches be controlled only via DCC since 1) all the other ones are manually controlled, 2) I prefer the physical act of manually throwing a turnout considering how "manual" the real RGS was, and 3) you can't access stationary decoders with a Digitrax utility throttle.

I'm still stuck on this idea of being able to throw the three-way stub using a surface-mounted "on-on-on" DPDT slide switch.  There are wiring diagrams out there for powering the frogs in a 3-way stub, but the mechanical throw could theoretically be achieved using the slide in the same way so many of us use SPST sub-mini slides for standard turnouts.  Is it just that a slide-switch has too much play to ensure the center position alignment?  Or is it the linkage between the slide switch and the throwbar that would be too sloppy?  In the 2009 HOn3 Annual there's an article on doing this but using an under-mounted DPDT "on-on-on" toggle switch with a vertical rod through the plywood to provide the mechanical throw.

What I'm looking for is a solution that's simple, manual, Dave-proof (i.e., easy to build), and reliable.  There are some good ideas already in this thread but I'm still wondering if I'm way off on my idea of a surface-mount 3-way slide.  I may have to bite the bullet and test it...hoping that however I secure the turnout and roadbed isn't too permanent in the event it fails.
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Santa Fe Guy

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2018, 03:19:04 AM »
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Dave I don't see why a on,on,on slide switch would not work.
Maybe purchase one that is from a reputable company that can verify that they will do what they say and not an ell-cheapo.
I used slide switches to manually move the turnouts on my now fallen flag ON30 Lost Creek RR.
Admittedly it was for a larger turnout however that could be overcome.
Maybe even use model aircraft servo control rods with ball joints in the mech.
Take a look at Fast tracks etched wood turnout controls and see if they could be incorporated.
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This was attached to a piece of aluminum which was a bit better to work with and allowed space for a decent sized switch.
Rod.
Santafesd40.blogspot.com

Point353

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2018, 04:56:16 AM »
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I'm still stuck on this idea of being able to throw the three-way stub using a surface-mounted "on-on-on" DPDT slide switch.  There are wiring diagrams out there for powering the frogs in a 3-way stub, but the mechanical throw could theoretically be achieved using the slide in the same way so many of us use SPST sub-mini slides for standard turnouts.  Is it just that a slide-switch has too much play to ensure the center position alignment?  Or is it the linkage between the slide switch and the throwbar that would be too sloppy?
Any interest in a lever style switch?


Dave V

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2018, 09:07:25 AM »
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Any interest in a lever style switch?



That’s what DKS had suggested and I’d consider it.
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Mark W

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2018, 11:37:22 AM »
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Have you considered building a plate with an E channel? 

Here's a 30 second diagram. 
Blue is your switch post/lever.  Green throw-bar.  Squiggly gold is a spring to keep the post in position.  It may not be necessary if you install the post to lean into the slots itself. 


https://i.imgur.com/zSOih02.jpg

I'd probably use a brass or copper plate and drill/dremel out the channel.  And since this is all diy, you'll be able to position each slot exactly.

The only thing it doesn't accommodate is frog juice.  But there's a decoder for that.


If you want to get really ingenious, you could mount a 3 position slide sideways under the E plate and have the lever connect to both the slide switch and throwbar.   You'd have throwbar position kept via the E channel, so any play in the slide switch should be null.
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Dave V

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2018, 01:32:00 PM »
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Have you considered building a plate with an E channel? 

Here's a 30 second diagram. 
Blue is your switch post/lever.  Green throw-bar.  Squiggly gold is a spring to keep the post in position.  It may not be necessary if you install the post to lean into the slots itself. 


https://i.imgur.com/zSOih02.jpg

I'd probably use a brass or copper plate and drill/dremel out the channel.  And since this is all diy, you'll be able to position each slot exactly.

The only thing it doesn't accommodate is frog juice.  But there's a decoder for that.


If you want to get really ingenious, you could mount a 3 position slide sideways under the E plate and have the lever connect to both the slide switch and throwbar.   You'd have throwbar position kept via the E channel, so any play in the slide switch should be null.

Hmmm...  I like this.  This might work.  Would use frog juicers for the frogs if I did this.
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Point353

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2018, 01:41:05 PM »
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That’s what DKS had suggested and I’d consider it.
His illustration showed a lever switch, but the eBay link was for a 4-position rotary switch. :?

Here's the spec sheet for the lever switch pictured in my previous post: http://www.electro-nc.com/rotaryus/e2.pdf

 

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2018, 12:29:13 PM »
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Have you considered building a plate with an E channel? 


https://i.imgur.com/zSOih02.jpg


Certainly a variation of mark W's idea, the only issue I see with this design is the short distance of the throw.  The legs inside the E would be very thin and might bend because the travel is 1:1.    Maybe a \/\/\/ detent style would be better,? The V shapes would be easy to file into a thick brass plate on center with a triangular file. I like the spring idea below to hold the lever in the detent, although if the wire were phosphor bronze with a loop at the bottom the lever wire could serve as the spring too.



I like the switch ideas too because the electricity could be controlled.

Santa Fe Guy

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2018, 07:55:15 PM »
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Dave, just looking through a borrowed HOn3 2009 Annual a Carstens publication and there is an article on how to actuate and wire a three way stub switch.
It has a list of parts and wiring instructions along with a diagram on how to set it up.
Article starts on page 82.
Might be worth a look see.
Rod.
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Dave V

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2018, 03:01:31 PM »
+7
Finally got around to this project again, since tracklaying into Rico was on hold until it was resolved. 

I wanted the simplest possible solution.  All my other turnouts are hand-operated so I had no desire to deal with servo motors and stuff.  I've started using the Tam Valley frog juicers for regular turnouts and they're simply awesome.  So for my three-way stub I decided it was totally worth using three of the six outputs for a hex frog juicer so as to simplify wiring to the minimum complexity possible.  All that was left was a mechanical means to align and hold the rails into the three positions.  A simple DPDT slide switch had exactly the right throw distance.

Centered (aligned for main):



Right (aligned toward yard and enginehouse):



Left (aligned toward house track and switchback to Pro Patria Mill):



Everything checked out with a Micro Engineering HOn3 track gauge, but the real test came with an outside-framed K-27 2-8-2.  Everything checks out!  Can't wait to install it.
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Dave V

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2018, 11:26:03 AM »
+1
This week I installed and wired up the 3-way stub using Tam Valley Depot Frog Juicers.  I ran a C-19 with a pair of empty gons backward and forwards through all 3 routes of the turnout.  No stalls, no shorts, and no wheels on the ground.  I'm very glad I decided to stick with using this turnout because it adds a very prototypical touch to what I hope is going to be the most prototypical scene on my layout.  I haven't exactly raced a train through the turnout, but since it's a yard throat I don't expect much more than 5 to 10 MPH tops even for a through train.
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Santa Fe Guy

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2018, 07:59:41 PM »
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This week I installed and wired up the 3-way stub using Tam Valley Depot Frog Juicers.  I ran a C-19 with a pair of empty gons backward and forwards through all 3 routes of the turnout.  No stalls, no shorts, and no wheels on the ground.  I'm very glad I decided to stick with using this turnout because it adds a very prototypical touch to what I hope is going to be the most prototypical scene on my layout.  I haven't exactly raced a train through the turnout, but since it's a yard throat I don't expect much more than 5 to 10 MPH tops even for a through train.
Great that it worked out for you Dave.
My good friend Peter has a three way turnout (not a stub) on his Los Pinos and Toltec RR and it works well. They save a lot of space.
Rod.
Santafesd40.blogspot.com

Dave V

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Re: Opinions Wanted on a Narrow Gauge 3-Way Turnout
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2018, 09:17:26 PM »
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Great that it worked out for you Dave.
My good friend Peter has a three way turnout (not a stub) on his Los Pinos and Toltec RR and it works well. They save a lot of space.
Rod.

They do, but in my case I actually had plenty of space for traditional turnouts.  It was the prototype that drove me to this!
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