Author Topic: Con-Cor dummy E7's  (Read 1126 times)

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Paradise275

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Con-Cor dummy E7's
« on: April 21, 2018, 09:21:12 PM »
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Is it possible to put an Kato E8 mechanism in the Con-Cor dummy shell?
After all, Kato used to make their mechanisms.

Rick
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 09:22:51 PM by Paradise275 »

Rasputen

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2018, 10:45:04 PM »
+1
I'm working on one, the shell is a little  thicker than a Kato shell, so I used a large file to remove some metal from both sides of the chassis halves.
You will also want to mount the pilot onto the shell and fill the gap with some plastic too.  Why Kato has never made an E7 is beyond me, their E8 mechanism is one of the smoothest runners I have ever seen.

brokemoto

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 12:32:53 PM »
+1
Why Kato has never made an E7 is beyond me, their E8 mechanism is one of the smoothest runners I have ever seen.

Kato easily could become to N scale E-units what IM is to the F-units.

So far, only LL has come close, with its plastic frame E-8s, E-7s and E-6s.  C-C/RR did have the E-8s and E-7s, but no E-6s.

I do wonder how many changes would be necessary to do the EA-through-E-5.  Some, of course, would have limited appeal, as some were road specific. 

Supposedly, there is not that much difference between the EAs built for the B&O and E-1s built for ATSF.  In fact, I have read work by knowledgeable authors that state that both B&O and ATSF "had EAs".

The E-2s were unique and there were only two As and four Bs that ran on SP/UP/C&NW

Several roads had E-3s.

Only SAL had E-4s

Only CB&Q had E-5s

The E-3s, -4s and -5s look similar, with the exception of the corrugated siding on the -5.

The E-2s look much like the later nose on the earlier body.

Could it be done?

Paradise275

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 10:20:02 PM »
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Thanks Guys for your response.
I see what you mean by the thicker shell. I test fit a Con-Cor E7 shell on the Kato E8 and I see where the frame would need to be filed down a bit. The trick will be to leave the bumps for the shell tabs to hold it in place.
What coupler are you going to use for the nose? The Kato rear truck already has the coupler.

Rick

OldEastRR

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 03:05:19 PM »
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I swapped out some KATO E8s with dummy ConCor shells and don't remember having any problems. The CC shell is thicker and needs some grinding down, but the shells are the exact same length. You will have to cut the pilot off the ConCor truck, trim out the inner plastic and glue it to the KATO shell. With care you should be able to trim away enough of the CC pilot to be able to use the original KATO coupler attachment.
If you want to keep the swiveling pilot, you'll need to buy an KATO E8 truck with coupler and use it instead of the original KATO front truck. Cut the ConCor pilot off the truck as close to the first axle as you can. Discard the coupler. File out the rear side of the ConCor coupler box, leaving it open.
Remove the KATO coupler itself but leave the pocket. The ConCor coupler box should slip onto the KATO truck coupler box without a problem. If not, file the ConCor coupler box interior until it does. Screw-attach a short box MTL coupler in correct position on the pilot. Then superglue the ConCor pilot coupler box inserted over the KATO coupler box. Make sure the pilot when straight lines up to the KATO shell, and you have enough clearance between it and the shell to prevent binding.
I haven't done this with a KATO/ConCor E unit match, but it works with a KATO/ConCor PA mix.
When doing the E7 prep work I also drilled out the diesel exhaust and steam generator stacks on the ConCor shell and painted the inside black. Get rid of the clunky ConCor horns and replace them with KATO or detail set horns. It really makes a difference. I also removed the cast-on handrails and replaced them with brass wire. They really don't look like ConCor at all now!
One last note: the ConCor PA shell is a scale foot shorter than the PA one, but it still fits. In case you want to do this with PAs.

Alwyn Cutmore

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 06:40:37 AM »
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I have always liked the look of the ConCor E7 Body shell. and in the early days was quite happy with the ConCor/Sekisui mechs under the E7s and the PA. I do not think I ever got a ConCor/Rivarossi E8 to run at all acceptable. However over the years I did acquire quite a number of the Atlas/Roco powered models and also found them to be acceptable. Not a exquisite as the Kato models but at that time they were all we had. I have never rid myself of this fleet and they sit in a tray waiting my retirement. Maybe I will re-power them with a better motor or I will detail them up. I have tried to fit a Life Like E8 Mech (plastic) into an E7 body and it does work with a little filing of the cast weights. I am still to try a Life Like split chassis or a Kato chassis yet. I have a brass E7 which has a great little brass PRR Pilot that I have made urethane copies of which fit the ConCor to a T. I much prefer the ConCor E7 body to the Life Like model as it is more correct for the PRR Variant. I will try and add a photo of the Pilot fitted to the model tomorrow. I have a LifeLike Split Chass E8 A and B which will be donor mechs for the E7 conversions I will do.   
Al Cutmore
Slobbering Pennsy Shark Nose Freak
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thomasjmdavis

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 10:23:20 AM »
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As I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, it is possible to put a Life Like E8 (and I assume E7) shell over the Kato made Con Cor chassis.  I ended up with some odds and ends from a couple big eBay purchases of parts. The one thing that has always bugged me about the Con Cor Es and PAs is the attachment of the pilot to the trucks, and the resulting split in the front of the loco- so much prefer the LL and Kato products for looks. Project not finished yet as I need to dig through a couple boxes of misc parts for fuel tanks, and need to replace the LL stirrups, which are remarkably delicate for their size (I think over half of my LL Es have missing or busted stirrups).  May require a little sticky putty or something as the shell does not "snap on" to anything and currently sits loose.
Tom D.

"The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that doing the impossible is usually more fun." (my college design professor Russell Whaley)

Alwyn Cutmore

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 07:29:12 AM »
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Tom D,

You may need to go on eBay and have a look for some JnJ Trains etched E7/E8 steps. They are very good but no longer available.

Regards

Al

Al Cutmore
Slobbering Pennsy Shark Nose Freak
Australia

thomasjmdavis

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2018, 08:39:55 AM »
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I do keep my eyes peeled on eBay. JNJ products were what got me started on building passenger cars and such. If someone is bidding against you on passenger car parts or loco details, it's probably me, lol. Gold Medal also has a etching for loco steps and stirrups- includes several styles. 

From my point of view, the "RTR modelers" miss out on what to me is the best part of the hobby.  Which unfortunately means that the manufacturers and suppliers of car kits and detail parts have "day jobs" (due to low demand) and availability of a lot of things is haphazard at best.  But I find that when one of the makers retires, another one pops up.  So while JNJ parts are getting hard to find, along come the wonderful kits from Keystone Details and KV models and so I have a relaxing weekend ahead, working on Stillwells and an Erie business car, and maybe I will unpack the mostly complete JnJ lunch counter diner I have stashed away, and see if I can cut and paste some interior parts from Kato and MT.


Tom D.

"The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that doing the impossible is usually more fun." (my college design professor Russell Whaley)

Alwyn Cutmore

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 05:08:08 PM »
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Tom D,
I just looked at their website and have emailed them about their detail parts. If I get a reply I will confirm on this thread.

Regards

Al
Al Cutmore
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thomasjmdavis

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2018, 05:32:06 PM »
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Al,
It's been a while since I ordered anything from JnJ, but last I knew, they would still sell items they had left in inventory, and were occasionally putting things up on eBay, although I don't recall the eBay ID.
Tom D.

"The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that doing the impossible is usually more fun." (my college design professor Russell Whaley)

Alwyn Cutmore

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 06:44:34 PM »
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Tom D,

I am trying to get a pic up of the pilot to show but it would appear that FB does not like to share.

Regards

Al
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 06:46:43 PM by Alwyn Cutmore »
Al Cutmore
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atsf3751

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2018, 08:59:17 PM »
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E's and F's both have two kinds of pilots. One is called the passenger pilot and it is generally straight following the angle of the nose. The other pilot is called the freight pilot and has a chin just below the body before the pilot starts. I do not know if this is railroad practice or railfan practice.
Marty Young
San Diego, CA

Alwyn Cutmore

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 11:41:30 PM »
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Marty,

I model the PRR and all the E and F Units they had appear to have had the Passenger or straight pilot. Early on in their life they also had shrouds that could be open or closed over the coupler arrangement so that the hole in the pilot matched the streamlining of the loco. After a while most had the shrouds removed.

Regards

Al
Al Cutmore
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atsf3751

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Re: Con-Cor dummy E7's
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2018, 02:30:58 AM »
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Early E's and F's frequently had shrouds down the sides too to cover up the fuel tanks too, Santa Fe was one of the railroads that had those and later in their life they were removed to simplify maintenance.
Marty Young
San Diego, CA