Author Topic: Speaker questions (digikey)  (Read 636 times)

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daniel_leavitt2000

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Speaker questions (digikey)
« on: March 30, 2018, 06:38:19 PM »
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There was a post here a few days ago about speakers from Digikey. These are a lot less expensive than those available from DCC suppliers.

What should I be looking for in speakers? Does an 8OHM speakers work with all 8OHM sound decoders (like Loksound)? Looking at spec sheets, there does not seem to be any voltage specs.

Does anyone have recommendations for small sugar cube speakers that are in stock? I plan on building my own baffles.
'In my great and unmatched wisdom'

peteski

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Re: Speaker questions (digikey)
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2018, 07:10:06 PM »
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There was a post here a few days ago about speakers from Digikey. These are a lot less expensive than those available from DCC suppliers.

What should I be looking for in speakers? Does an 8OHM speakers work with all 8OHM sound decoders (like Loksound)? Looking at spec sheets, there does not seem to be any voltage specs.

Does anyone have recommendations for small sugar cube speakers that are in stock? I plan on building my own baffles.

Yes, just like with LEDs and other electronic components, when they are sold by outlets specializing in model railroading, they are usually more expensive than if you purchase those components directly from industrial electronic suppliers.

Electrically, speakers have impedance (in ohms, like 4, 8, 16 ohms) and power rating (in Watts or milli-Watts). Those are the ratings you need to consider.  Then there are acoustical ratings (like sensitivity) and physical dimensions. In N scale we usually go tor the physical dimensions (so the speaker fits in whatever empty space we can create for it).

Most decoders recommend using 8 ohm speakers (but there are exceptions).  Most speakers have 8 ohm impedance. The output of the audio amplifier is generally about 1 Watt. But that doesn't mean that if you were to use a 500mW rated speaker it will burn up. Even if the volume is turned up to where the amp will will hit those 1W peaks, it will just cause sound distortion.  The speaker should survive.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

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reinhardtjh

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Re: Speaker questions (digikey)
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2018, 07:28:03 PM »
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ESU LokSound V4.0 and Select decoders are designed for speakers in the 4-8 ohm range.  Which means if you have a 4 ohm or an 8 ohm or two 8 ohms in parallel (4 ohm equivalent) or two 4 ohms in series (8 ohm equivalent) then you are good.  I think they say that 4 ohm is best, but those are usually hard to find in sizes for N-Scale.  The older LokSound V3.,5 specified a 100 ohm speaker.   You can use a higher impedance speaker than specified (i.e. a 32 ohm on a LokSound V4 or Select) and it generally won't hurt anything.  It will reduce the possible volume so it's not optimal.  But you really do not want to use a lower than rated, like a 4 ohm on a decoder designed for a 32 or 100 ohm speaker.  That risks burning out the amp section of the decoder.  Or at best making it run hot and going into thermal shutdown (if the decoder has that safeguard).

The speakers from DigiKey/Mouser/etc are cheaper because you still need to add an enclosure - whether home-built or bought so consider that in the expenses as well.  And sometimes they're not cheaper, but the speaker is better.  It all depends.
John H. Reinhardt
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Speaker questions (digikey)
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2018, 08:45:47 PM »
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I'm going to toss up some links to parts that I think looks like they would work.

Not yet available:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CMS-160925-078S/102-4619-ND/8581453
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CMS-160925-078SP/102-4620-ND/8581454
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CMS-16093-078S/102-4621-ND/8581455
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CMS-16093-078SP/102-4622-ND/8581456
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CMS-16093-078L100/102-4623-ND/8581457 (this one is pre-wired)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CMS-16093-076SP/102-4629-ND/8581463
Shipping in 2019.
All are 100-20k frequency range


Available now:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CMS-160916A-SP/102-4344-ND/7404552
16x9mm, but starting frequency response is 550Hz. Not sure if that will make a difference.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CMS-16098-30-SP/102-4057-ND/6243982
This one looks promising but is no longer made (plenty in stock though)
16x9, 400-20k response

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/soberton-inc/SP-1508/433-1135-ND/6099109
15x8 speaker will get into some places the larger ones don't. 7ohms. Frequency is 300-5k. I'm a little worried that will low high end would deaden the sound.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/soberton-inc/SP-1609S-2/433-1134-ND/6099108
16x9 version of above.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/knowles/2403-263-00052/423-1198-ND/4376272
15x6 will get into some really narrow hoods. 300-4k frequency response is a low at the top end. 16 ohms, so I don't know if it will burn out the decoder.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pui-audio-inc/AS01606MS-SP16-WP-R/668-1603-ND/8021794
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pui-audio-inc/AS01608MS-SP9-WP-R/668-1605-ND/8021796
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pui-audio-inc/AS01608MS-SC9-WP-R/668-1606-ND/8021797
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pui-audio-inc/AS01608MS-SP16-WP-R/668-1607-ND/8021798
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pui-audio-inc/AS01608MS-SC16-WP-R/668-1608-ND/8021799
16x9 500-20k frequency response. 8 ohms


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peteski

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Re: Speaker questions (digikey)
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2018, 10:58:17 PM »
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Like John mentioned in his post, the rule is not to use a speaker with lower impedance than what the amplifier's specs state is the lowest recommended value.
Having speaker with a higher impedance that the amplifier's recommended will not harm either the amp or the speaker.  But all the available power from the amp will not be utilized so the sound volume will be reduced.

The bottom mine is to have the speaker's impedance matched to what the amp is designed to handle. The same rules apply to home or car audio amps.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
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-"Look at me, I'm not negative, just blunt and honest!!!"

jdcolombo

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Re: Speaker questions (digikey)
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2018, 10:04:18 AM »
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Hi Daniel.

See the following thread for some thoughts:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=43512

I think the Soberton 8mm x 12mm speaker i talk about in that thread is currently out of stock, but due back in May.  The Soberton 8x12 in the custom 3D-printed enclosure by John LeMerise is my go-to speaker for nearly all diesel installations, even ones that are big enough for a 9x16mm.  Using the 8x12 gives room for keep-alive caps and just makes the whole job somewhat easier.

John C.