Author Topic: Help with ECO-100  (Read 1072 times)

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SP-Wolf

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Help with ECO-100
« on: February 12, 2018, 11:17:01 PM »
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Howdy Folks,

I have posted this on the Soundtraxx Yahoo group - thought I'd throw this at Y'all

I have installed an ECO-100 into a N Scale Kato F7 (Actually a pair of them). I have used decoderpro to program them. I set the addresses, new horns, set the speed and set up the lighting. The issue I am having: everything works great --- except no sound. I have done a reset. Sound works great. Oh - I am a Digitrax user. I have the DCS200 (8 amp Super Chief) with a new DT-500 throttle. It won't read nor program these decoders. (I also have a programmer booster). So, what am I doing wrong-? Any and all assistance will be greatly appreciated.

And - yes F8 is off.

Thanks,
Wolf
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 11:20:02 PM by SP-Wolf »

peteski

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 02:08:21 AM »
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You say that your DCC system (DCS200) cannot program this decoder.  How is the DecoderPro programming it then? What is the interface between the DecoderPro computer and the decoder?

Are you saying that if you reset the decoder to factory setting the sound works ok (using your DCS200 and DT-500?  If that is the case then to me it seems like the programming process changes some some setting (CV) on the decoder that results with sound not working.

Can you break down the programming into smaller number of changes, then test?  Like: read the decoder CVs into DecoderPro and just change the address. Run it at the new address and see if the sound still works. Next just set the speed stuff and again check if the decoder still works. Then set up lighting and again test the decoder. Then the horn, and test again. At some point the problem will probably show up. At least now you will have a much smaller amount of changes to look over to see what messes things up.
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woodone

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 08:08:27 AM »
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F-8 off mutes the sound- F-8 must be on for the sound to work !

SP-Wolf

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 09:34:51 AM »
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You say that your DCC system (DCS200) cannot program this decoder.  How is the DecoderPro programming it then? What is the interface between the DecoderPro computer and the decoder? -- Yeah, crazy - huh? On my DT-500 I get "NOAK" after trying to program. It even displayed that when I did the reset CV8 -- 8. So, I tried programing the road number. No bueno. I thought perhaps it is was a "blind" programming thing. (I put the locomotive on the main - no good. had to use "03"). I also tried to read a CV -- again, no bueno. The interface is a PR3 with the Digitrax PS14 power supply (I'm considering going to the PS615). I do not think Decoderpro is programming it (them) properly.

Are you saying that if you reset the decoder to factory setting the sound works ok (using your DCS200 and DT-500?  If that is the case then to me it seems like the programming process changes some some setting (CV) on the decoder that results with sound not working. -- Yes - this is correct (Sound works after factory reset).

Can you break down the programming into smaller number of changes, then test?  Like: read the decoder CVs into DecoderPro and just change the address. Run it at the new address and see if the sound still works. Next just set the speed stuff and again check if the decoder still works. Then set up lighting and again test the decoder. Then the horn, and test again. At some point the problem will probably show up. At least now you will have a much smaller amount of changes to look over to see what messes things up. --- Funny you mention this -- this will be my next step. I won't be able to mess with this until Thursday - 02/15

peteski

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 05:12:24 PM »
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I'm still unclear on the answer.  So the DecoderPro is going through the DCS200 (programming track) to reach the decoder?  And it cannot read (verify) the CV values?  Then I guess yes, it must be blindly succeeding in programming. But we have no way to verify things.  That is not good for troubleshooting.  Good luck!
--- Peteski de Snarkski

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John

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2018, 05:37:16 PM »
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what computer / operating systems

do you have the latest version of DecoderPro?

Open the monitor loconet window and make sure the interface is actually active .. if you see information scrolling along when you turn throttle knobs, etc, then you probably have it installed ok ..


SP-Wolf

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2018, 06:15:21 PM »
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@peteski and @John -- my Decoderpro is hooked up to my desk top PC (It's an HP) Windows 10.  Not to the DCS200.

No -- my Decoderpro is not the current version -- to be honest, I have been reluctant to update it. With all of the issues I have seen on the JMRI Yahoo group. But, perhaps I should.

It is very strange that my DT500/DCS200 cannot read and apparently wright these decoders but Decoderpro to some extant can. But, why can my DT500 reset the darn things - ?

I have sent a tech at Soundtraxx this issue as well. I was kind of hoping one of Y'all has had a similar thing happen.
We'll see what he comes back with.

Thanks - for the replies!!
Wolf

peteski

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2018, 06:43:29 PM »
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@peteski and @John -- my Decoderpro is hooked up to my desk top PC (It's an HP) Windows 10.  Not to the DCS200.

No -- my Decoderpro is not the current version -- to be honest, I have been reluctant to update it. With all of the issues I have seen on the JMRI Yahoo group. But, perhaps I should.

It is very strange that my DT500/DCS200 cannot read and apparently wright these decoders but Decoderpro to some extant can. But, why can my DT500 reset the darn things - ?

I have sent a tech at Soundtraxx this issue as well. I was kind of hoping one of Y'all has had a similar thing happen.
We'll see what he comes back with.

Thanks - for the replies!!
Wolf

Wolf, DecoderPro is a JMRI application (program) which runs on your personal computer. But it has to somehow communicate with the decoder you are programming with it.  How exactly  is your personal computer interfacing with the programming track the loco is sitting on?  Or to put it another way: what device connects between the computer running DecoderPro and the programing track on which the loco sits? That is my question all along.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 06:45:21 PM by peteski »
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SP-Wolf

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2018, 06:58:33 PM »
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Wolf, DecoderPro is a JMRI application (program) which runs on your personal computer. But it has to somehow communicate with the decoder you are programming with it.  How exactly  is your personal computer interfacing with the programming track the loco is sitting on?  Or to put it another way: what device connects between the computer running DecoderPro and the programing track on which the loco sits? That is my question all along.

I had answered this question -
The interface is a PR3 with the Digitrax PS14 power supply 

Thanks,
Wolf

peteski

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2018, 07:07:52 PM »
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I had answered this question -
The interface is a PR3 with the Digitrax PS14 power supply 

Thanks,
Wolf

Oops!  I missed that (my excuse was that it was small text with which you responded inside the quote of my message).  :)

So, PR3 appears to have more "oomph" to be able to deal with sound decoders. The standard programming track of some DCC systems does not deal well with sound decoders (because they require more power than standard decoders, and programming track is low-power by design).  My NCE Power Cab DCC system can program all my sound decoders on the programming tracks problem-free.

I don't have specific experience with ECO-100 but it might be possible that because it is a low-end decoder there are some limitations when it comes to be able to reading back CVs?  Not sure.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

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SP-Wolf

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 07:26:26 PM »
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Oops!  I missed that (my excuse was that it was small text with which you responded inside the quote of my message).  :)

So, PR3 appears to have more "oomph" to be able to deal with sound decoders. The standard programming track of some DCC systems does not deal well with sound decoders (because they require more power than standard decoders, and programming track is low-power by design).  My NCE Power Cab DCC system can program all my sound decoders on the programming tracks problem-free.

I don't have specific experience with ECO-100 but it might be possible that because it is a low-end decoder there are some limitations when it comes to be able to reading back CVs?  Not sure.

No worries -- not a big deal. -- I appreciate you assisting me.

I have been presented with a theory -- the Powerpax booster may be the issue -- in regards to my DCS200/DT500 issue. Apparently these decoders do not require a power booster.

So -- I will remove the booster from the loop and see what happens.

Thanks,
Wolf

John

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 08:29:48 PM »
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No worries -- not a big deal. -- I appreciate you assisting me.

I have been presented with a theory -- the Powerpax booster may be the issue -- in regards to my DCS200/DT500 issue. Apparently these decoders do not require a power booster.

So -- I will remove the booster from the loop and see what happens.

Thanks,
Wolf


I have a PR3 as well, and have used it exclusively to program decoders with it through JMRI .. including digitrax sound and BLI decoders ..  try just using that setup ..


peteski

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 08:46:43 PM »
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No worries -- not a big deal. -- I appreciate you assisting me.

I have been presented with a theory -- the Powerpax booster may be the issue -- in regards to my DCS200/DT500 issue. Apparently these decoders do not require a power booster.

So -- I will remove the booster from the loop and see what happens.

Thanks,
Wolf

LOL, it seems that I missed another detail:  You originally mentioned that you have a power booster (without mentioning a specific brand), but you didn't say that it was being used. I guess it is all in the details.  I agree with John - take it out of the equation.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

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SP-Wolf

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2018, 11:51:03 AM »
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I have a PR3 as well, and have used it exclusively to program decoders with it through JMRI .. including digitrax sound and BLI decoders ..  try just using that setup ..

I have been using this setup -- JMRI on a Windows 10 machine through a PR3. This works great for non sound decoders (At least for me) Part of my issue may be the power supply I am using - -it's the PS14. Not sure if it has quite enough umph to fully and correctly let JMRI do its thing. I am wondering if a PS615 might be better,

LOL, it seems that I missed another detail:  You originally mentioned that you have a power booster (without mentioning a specific brand), but you didn't say that it was being used. I guess it is all in the details.  I agree with John - take it out of the equation.

Yeah -- the Powerpax booster is going to be history. Per another person's suggestion, I will be trying OPS mode programming.

I want to thank you guys for all your help and guidance -- I will be reporting on my progress!!

Wolf

peteski

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Re: Help with ECO-100
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 04:15:55 PM »
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Things really should not be this complicated Wolf.  N scale sound decoders (when running) will use less than 1A of current (probably closer to 0.5A).  In programming  mode, that will be even less.  If your power supply dedicated to programming can supply 0.5A or more, that should be plenty. Well, the PR3 itself needs some power to, so let's say 1A power supply should be more than adequate.

OPS mode programming is not optimal. You doing it blindly since there is no read-back capability. So troubleshooting is difficult.  Also one of the perks of DecoderPro is that it keeps a record of all the CVs in all of the decoders you own. So when a decoder "blows its brains" (which I can guarantee will happen at some point), you can easily restore all of its CVs from the DecoderPro roster.   But you know that.

I guess if the ECO-100 is the only decoder that is incompatible with your PR3 and DecoderPro, then it is not such a big deal. OPS programming will likely work.   If I do OPS mode programming I remove all the other locos on the track - just being very cautious.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

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