More "People Are Dumb" Things

[Blazeman]

Apparently, no one reads or can comprehend trains roll fast and aren't that noisy until they are near you. Crossing gates being down must not be triggering the cause/effect thinking process.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/safety/news/Brightline-steps-up-safety-initiatives-in-response-to-rail-crossing-deaths--53741?

[C855B]

There's not really a good answer for this. The last two generations in the U.S. have come to associate trains with slow, and grade crossings as massive wastes of time, why are the gates down, I don't see any trains, oh, gawd I'm stuck here for 20 minutes. Newly refurbished lines are especially vulnerable to public disdain for safety warnings after decades of lumbering freight movements blocking crossings. So people are surprised when trains are suddenly fast, and there are tragic outcomes.

[lock4244]

If you're too stupid, because that's what this is, stupid, to understand the dangers associated with a railroad crossing, there probably isn't much anyone can do to prevent your tragic death. If not by a train, then probably crossing the road without first checking if it is safe to do so. As usual, the political class are braying for something to be done because it such a wonderful distraction from what they're really doing. If someone could fix stupidity, then the politicians would be out of a job... no one left to steal money from to buy back their vote. Hmmm, so I suppose that idiots being hit by trains is actually a real problem for the political class as it robs them of their primary voting block. Interesting...

Too bad these train crews get to live with this.

[BCR751]

Reading those news reports, the deaths sound a lot like natural selection to me.

Doug

[C855B]

Harsh assessments, guys. I'm on our city's ad-hoc committee on grade crossings, and public contempt for automatic warnings is a serious issue. Again, the average person has learned from direct experience that: 1) trains are slow; 2) if it is a train I'm stuck here for a long while; and 3) it's probably a false alarm, anyway. Pedestrians are especially vulnerable to this complacency in our area as there is NO pedestrian grade separation - just vehicles over the one overpass, and using it adds 3 miles to the trip.

As a long-ago RR signal maintainer, I certainly know both sides of the issue. The RRs want and deserve compliance, and the public needs to be aware of the hazards especially when there have been changes to rail traffic behavior. However, the RRs have abused their higher legal authority over the last 40 years by running longer, fewer and slower trains, de-prioritizing grade crossing signal system maintenance, and failing to make advances in grade crossing protection systems that benefit the public by reducing false alarms and too-long anticipation intervals. Adding to the problem is the RRs' answer to grade crossing issues seems to be reducing the number of crossings by blocking access. That's a big home-run with pedestrian traffic, encouraging the "trespassing" which the lawyers like to thump in assigning fault.

I'll reiterate: there is no easy answer, and innocents are being killed in what I see as a learned, intuitive risk/reward behavior. There is a lot of public perception to undo, it's not going to happen overnight, and enhancing warning systems is not going to change perceptions. That last one may even exacerbate the contempt, encouraging fence/gate jumping with some of the new "lock-out" systems being installed.

[Mark W]

We have automated cars that drive themselves.  Pilot vehicles lead and follow "Wide Load" trucks.  Why not an automated rail vehicle that leads trains? (One that is clearly decorated as such, and not mistaken for a rail maintenance vehicle.)

When the crossings go down, the pilot vehicle would run through, visually announcing the presence of a train close behind.  At most, it extends the time the crossings are activated by several seconds,  but the benefit could save lives.

If there is a hazard, the pilot vehicle provides advanced warning to the engineer.  If there is a collision, a car vs a pilot vehicle would have much better odds than the car vs train.  Even if that occurred within the 'event horizon' of a train's stopping distance, it could provide an extra few valuable seconds for escape.   

I know the idea raises a lot more variables to consider, especially when piloting within that event horizon.  It would surely suck to be double whacked, first by a pilot vehicle, then a freight train. 
But if the trade off is reducing to a few double whammy's vs hundreds of direct hits...

I often wonder if it would be feasible.   

[Dave V]

Mike,

If all that stood at the crossing were a "stop, look, and listen" sign I'd be with you on learned behavior and previous experience.  But the fact is bells ring, lights flash, and gates go down.  So in addition to applying previous experience, these "victims" are also making a very conscious decision to break the "rules" (not sure if the law views pedestrians at grade crossings in the same way it does vehicles) in spite of systems put in place to protect them screaming "don't try it!"

Harsh or no, these people--whom I'm sure were loved and were part of their communities and will be sorely missed--self-eliminated.  And we are collectively just a little more savvy as a species because of it.  Just as there are warnings on tube socks and Tide pods, we will not be able to save everyone from every possible stupid way to self-eliminate.  In the end, "stupid always finds a way."

[CNR5529]

The problem of public complacency with respect to level crossings is a real tough one to solve. Unfortunately it will likely take a long time and many people will have to learn the hard way before a culture of safety is re-introduced.

When the crossings go down, the pilot vehicle would run through, visually announcing the presence of a train close behind.

I know this isn't what you meant, but it is what I first thought off when reading the pilot idea... 



For more on the "West Side Cowboys": https://www.newyorktour1.com/blog/untold-nyc-history-west-side-cowboys/

[C855B]

If RR crossing warning systems were 100%, or even 95% dependable, I'd agree. But they're not, and fail-safe systems tend to favor false positives. Some of it, too, is our over-warned society. We've become numb to warning labels, and grade crossing systems are just another warning label, ho hum. If they were as consistent and reliable as, say, traffic lights, it would be different.

My wife follows her home-town newspaper in San Francisco. She says there seems to be at least one item a week about somebody stepping in front of a CalTrain commuter run thinking they can beat it. Trains on that particular line have been going fast and numerous for 50-60 years, so that's clearly Darwinism at work.

I guess the Brightline incidences are going to grab headlines for a while because it's new and different, with plenty of naysayers to stir the $#!+.

I still worry about our local situation. Amtrak's new Charger locos are astoundingly quiet. I'm concerned about our (entirely too large) community of Darwin candidates being totally oblivious, blissfully walking their normal daily trek to the store, or work, or whatever across the tracks. Most of the engineers are heavy on the horn through town... so far.

[Point353]

Poor judgement of approaching train speed aside, you won't see the train if your eyes are fixed on a smartphone and you won't hear it if your ears are covered by headphones connected to a personal music player.

[central.vermont]

Just can't fix stupid. 

[Bendtracker1]

Why not an automated rail vehicle that leads trains? (One that is clearly decorated as such, and not mistaken for a rail maintenance vehicle.)

This a great idea, let's just add more cost to a overly taxed society and make things more difficult to comprehend for those can't do this already.

....you won't see the train if your eyes are fixed on a smartphone and you won't hear it if your ears are covered by headphones connected to a personal music player.

This is the major problem.  No one pays attention anyway, another reason the first idea is worthless.

Just can't fix stupid. 

Unfortunately this is the truth.  Common sense has went the way of the Dodo.  No one wants to uphold their own responsibility for themselves.

Mother nature has a cure for this, it's called natural selection.

[peteski]

Just can't fix stupid. 

No, you can't.
And the way I see this is that if I can practice safe RR crossing methods, the other "normal" humans should be able to do do this  same. If their brain chooses not to practice safe and logical behavior, it is their deadly mistake. I have not sympathy for them at all.

Even if I was to cross a track with the gates down, I will make damn sure I that I can clearly see that there is no actively moving train anywhere on the track.

[Doug G.]

They could put super loudspeakers at all crossings with a voice yelling, "There is a train coming, stay where you are!" at 200 dB and people would still get killed.

Doug

[C855B]

Here's a novel idea... people! Crossing flaggers, or guards. What is old can be new again.

I don't think our eyes were deceiving us when we were in Denver several months ago. On the light rail line we rode between Union Station and the hotel near the airport, every grade crossing had two attendants in safety vests, one on each side, who would step out into the street as the gates lowered, carrying a stop sign. Our room had a view of one of the crossings - as long as the trains were running, there were attendants on duty.

Being able to stare somebody down who may be considering doing something stupid goes a long way towards keeping them honest.