Author Topic: Potential future ESM MIA kit??  (Read 3441 times)

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nkalanaga

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2017, 12:51:52 AM »
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The grain doors seem to be simple enough.  Since there will be other etched parts, how about etching grain doors?  If the modeler wants the doors, install that plate.  If not, install a blank plate.  You get two models for "almost" the price of one.  Just recess the casting a little in the door location, so the plates fit at the right height, and it will look fine either way.  I'm pretty sure these cars ran, at least for a while, in BN service with the doors.

Even if you release only the BN version, with plain doors, the option will be there, and it will be easier to do the CB&Q doors later, without redoing the sides.
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bbussey

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2017, 01:24:36 PM »
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Because the roof and ends would still be an issue and, to be honest, I'm not personally invested in the respective railroads to the point where I would want to design every possible variation of this extremely esoteric prototype. If the body can be generated in a satisfactory fashion (the jury remains out regarding this stipulation), the BN non-grain-door no-roofwalk version would have the most appeal generally. A late CB&Q version could be represented as well. Both would cover the 1970s, 1980s and probably a portion of the 1990s, whereas the as-built version covers only a portion of the 1960s and the no-roofwalk grain-door version covers an even shorter period.
Bryan Busséy
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nkalanaga

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2017, 12:46:32 AM »
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When did the BN remove the grain doors?  Or were they removed by the CB&Q before the merger?  If the latter, I agree that most people would want the no-door version.

As I said before, I never personally saw one of these, so have no idea how soon they were repainted, or whether the CB&Q removed the roofwalks from all of them.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 12:48:03 AM by nkalanaga »
N Kalanaga
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nkalanaga

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2017, 12:46:43 AM »
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Previous questions answered - for one car.  Morning Sun Books' CB&Q color guide shows 47799. the last of the 10, in Jan 1976.  The car is still in CB&Q paint, with the door plated over, and the plate painted Chinese Red.  So, it would appear that car, at least, lost its door before, or very shortly after, the merger.  But it was also still red, so I can't use it as a BN car in 1974...

On the other hand, most of the pictures I've found of "normal" XM-4s, after the merger but still in CB&Q paint, show the doors still there, an apparently usable, even in the late 70s or early 80s.  BN 234077 still had its door, but all of the operating levers and grabs were gone, in 1970.  It appears that that one, at least, was welded shut, but not plated over.  BN 234335, 1988, appears to have an entire new main door, so it's no help.
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nscalbitz

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2017, 01:00:33 AM »
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I've thought about making a transco car someday.   I know drgw and atsf had forty foot boxcars, in addition to the others mentioned.   Did any other roads have cars with these sides?

Indeed D&RGW rebuilt 20 40' to numbers series 67400-67419 in 1965-66. Rebuilt from 1946 famous 12 panel boxes originally from 67500-67999 series. As the CB&Q, custom sized external steel panels for markings. retired from roster '93 and on.
Regards davew

bbussey

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2017, 01:03:46 AM »
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Given that the prototype is a rare ten-car subclass of the larger class and that the few photos existing of those ten cars show the doors welded shut on no-roofwalk configurations, that will be the configuration of the model as well.  The CB&Q 47799 gives hope for a possible CB&Q offering after the BN offering.  It would seem that if you have proven a red car existed in 1976 that you can justify a red car in 1974.
Bryan Busséy
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nkalanaga

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2017, 01:40:37 AM »
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Here you go:  BN 233495, one of the Transco cars, both with and without grain doors!

11/1/1977, by John Hill, with the door:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=765116

8/16/1982, by Chuck Zeigler, door hardware removed, but the door not plated over:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2869549
It was reweighed in 4-78, so that may have been when the door was sealed.  The first picture isn't clear enough to see when it was repainted.

Then there's this one of BN 233492, with the name and herald painted directly on the side, 8/29/1977, by Ron Hawkins.  It also still has the door:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2422014

So out of the 10 cars, 1 had the door removed by 1976, and possibly much earlier,  but was still in CB&Q paint, 2 in BN paint still had the doors in 1977, and at least one of those was gone by mid-78.  Since most of them seem to have had the door hardware removed, but the doors still there, it would be easy for me to replace the missing parts.

I tried to look on rrpicturearchives for CB&Q cars, but they didn't list any of the Transco numbers, and when I tried to look at what was listed, their site was down again.

And, yes, I can always run the 47799 in 1974.  It HAD to still be red, unless the BN repainted it, then painted it back to CB&Q.  I can't imagine them doing that!

Although, they did repaint an RS-3 for the NP in 1978, then left it parked at the yard office in Pasco for several months.  That was an odd case, though, as the unit had already been stripped, with no engine, generator, or traction motors.  The story I heard was that it was painted as evidence in a trial, but I never heard anything else about the case.
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wazzou

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2017, 02:50:50 AM »
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Not disputing any research or forming any opinion, it does astound me that the BN would strip the "BURLINGTON" lettering placards and fabricate new placards to repaint into BN paint and lettering.
Bryan

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nkalanaga

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2017, 03:10:40 AM »
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They almost had to remove the old placards, especially the ones for the name, because the Q used individual plates for each letter.  It would have been harder to paint under them than to paint the car without them, and they couldn't be used as-is for the BN herald.  Also, by removing them, they could check for corrosion behind them, before repainting.

As 233492 shows, they could paint the name and herald directly on the car, but it looks very funny from any angle except straight-on.  So, they needed new plates for the name and herald.  I notice that they did leave a few of the plates on the right side on 233492, and painted the herald partly over one, so it could have been done that way.  The plate behind the herald once held the reporting marks, and the COTS stencil is on the capacity data plate.  The "XM" and reweigh date plates were left to the right of the COTS.  I think (but won't swear) that the reweigh date, and probably repaint date, is 1-76, so they needed the COTS stencil when it was repainted.

233495 had all of the plates removed, then the COTS had a new plate added to the far right, with the two blocks stacked vertically.  I suspect, but again can't prove, that it was repainted in early 1974 or before, and the COTS was added later.  That might explain why it still had a usable grain door in 1977.

They could have reused the Q reporting marks and data plates, but the Q put the reporting marks and capacity on the right side of the car, and the dimensional data on the left, the opposite of most railroads.  The BN wanted everything together on the left, so again, they needed new plates.

Even though there were only ten cars, I wonder if any two of them were the same by the late 1970s?  Bryan might have to choose ONE car, on a particular date, and model that one!  Most buyers would only need one car anyway, as I doubt that two of them appeared together very often.  I would suggest the 233495, as it seems to have been an early repaint, meaning the maximum usable time, and, as I said, adding the door hardware would be easy for most buyers, if they want it.  Lettering the 233492, with printing or decals, would be very difficult.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 03:17:03 AM by nkalanaga »
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bbussey

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2017, 11:45:03 AM »
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Most likely there will be two plate configurations in the initial BN version, based on two specific numbers. Both of those cars had sealed grain doors while in green paint.
Bryan Busséy
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nkalanaga

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2017, 01:02:58 AM »
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That sounds good to me.
N Kalanaga
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nkalanaga

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2018, 02:14:51 AM »
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I was looking through my CB&Q files, and was reminded of this topic.  With the recent import issues, and this car being made in the USA, is there anything new to report? 
N Kalanaga
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Spades

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2018, 02:48:44 AM »
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  The hope is to pre-paint the body parts and pre-deco the etched plates similar to the Portec auto rack wrapper, which is doable for a short-run kit. 

Brian

Did you ever release the Portec auto racks?

G

bbussey

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2018, 08:10:48 AM »
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Still a work in progress. I got samples of the latest revised pewter flatcars from Peter a month ago and need to see if one model can be assembled from one of the sample printed nickel wrappers, which I had planned on doing this month after procuring/providing all materials needed for the x72 to the contractor. When we know for sure that the kit is viable, there will be a joint ESM/NSK announcement. Currently, the folding fixture for the wrapper is a stumbling block in terms of cost.
Bryan Busséy
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bbussey

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Re: Potential future ESM MIA kit??
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2018, 08:15:17 AM »
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I was looking through my CB&Q files, and was reminded of this topic.  With the recent import issues, and this car being made in the USA, is there anything new to report?

We proved the sides can be rendered. It’s on the list of items to push forward but no tentative release date as of yet.
Bryan Busséy
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NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net