FUD FXD forming small crystals after time?

[Chris333]

I think Shapeways is melting away the wax and then rinsing with water. When I get new stuff in the mail the parts have a sweet smell. I don't know if that is the resin or the wax. When I soak in Bestine some of that smell is still there, but much less. When I just for the first time used the ultrasonic cleaner and corn oil followed with soap. There was no sweet smell at all.

It says they use water to get the oil off, but that doesn't look like oil in the video:

/>Maybe it is a very light oil?

[peteski]

I think Shapeways is melting away the wax and then rinsing with water. When I get new stuff in the mail the parts have a sweet smell.

Smells sort of like almond extract to me.

[C855B]

Smells sort of like almond extract to me.

Don't forget that hydrogen cyanide has an almond-y aroma.

Funny thing is sweet almonds have trace amounts of HCN which I guess imparts some of the distinctive taste and smell. Bitter almonds have much more than trace amounts and are obviously poisonous. Jake lost me on the chemical relationships of FXD several pages ago, but is there a cyanoacrylate or other CN compound somewhere in the mix? Could it explain the odor?

[SandyEggoJake]

@C855B

Ha!  I might have lost myself too!  Still waiting to hear back from SW or 3DS, but reading technical journals on the science. 

Again, still not yet clear on the exact compounds that make up FUD, but in general, it is safe to assume some is urethane acrylate oligomers, which in fact can be prepared by use isocyanate-terminated oligomers.  And the photo initiators used are considered the proprietary and not disclosed in the MSDS. 

BTW, note the OFFICAL MSDS states:

"Ecotoxicity

A: General Product Information:The ecological assessment of this material is based on an evaluation of its components. This product is toxic????????????? to aquatic organisms and could cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.

B: Component Analysis - Ecotoxicity - Aquatic Toxicity: The urethane acrylate in this product is toxic to aquatic organisms and could cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.? "

The funny thing about those those "?????" ... they are NOT my addition, but exist in the actual 3DS doc on the SW drive!   

https://www.shapeways.com/rrstatic/material_docs/msds-frosted.pdf

Bottom line.... no snacking on your FUD models.  No so worried about HCN, but while on the topic, one might also consider reduced FUD dust exposure too ... more as these compounds tend to be allergenic.

[bbussey]

2. I actually wrote them back to get verification. They responded to me "like you use to cook meat." Personally, I don't use the good stuff for that. I use the good stuff for salads and the sipping of bread. But they did not specify first press or anything further than cooking meat.

What the hell does "like you use to cook meat" mean and how does that help you differentiate between the types of olive oil to use for cleaning their parts?  Aside from the fact that olive oil is low-viscosity, and quickly breaks down and becomes carcinogenic when exposed to high heat.  Good for baking, not stove top use.  If the meat is in the oven, fine.  But if fried or grilled, not good.

You were right, the parts didn't cure.  Better to have them reprint and replace.  If they don't at first, they will if you bark loudly enough.

[narrowminded]

I think Shapeways is melting away the wax and then rinsing with water. When I get new stuff in the mail the parts have a sweet smell. I don't know if that is the resin or the wax. When I soak in Bestine some of that smell is still there, but much less. When I just for the first time used the ultrasonic cleaner and corn oil followed with soap. There was no sweet smell at all.

Anything new?  Better, worse, or don't know yet.

[chicken45]

What the hell does "like you use to cook meat" mean and how does that help you differentiate between the types of olive oil to use for cleaning their parts?  Aside from the fact that olive oil is low-viscosity, and quickly breaks down and becomes carcinogenic when exposed to high heat.  Good for baking, not stove top use.  If the meat is in the oven, fine.  But if fried or grilled, not good.

You were right, the parts didn't cure.  Better to have them reprint and replace.  If they don't at first, they will if you bark loudly enough.

Yeah I think the guy was from Scandinavia and lacked the vocab needed.

This all went down last year, and Shapeways did reprint the entire order, which worked out better for me anyways.

As for frying and sauteing in OO, I thought that was just a myth. No oil is good past its smoke point and OO does have a low smoke point.

https://scienceornot.net/2012/09/15/is-it-safe-to-cook-with-olive-oil/

[Xmtrman]

What the hell does "like you use to cook meat" mean and how does that help you differentiate between the types of olive oil to use for cleaning their parts?

Extra Virgin Olive Oil (aka 1st press), the yummy version, has a very low smoke point indeed BUT regular olive oil (aka Light or Extra light) has a very high smoke point. Higher than peanut oil.

Olive Oil (virgin)   391°F   199°C
Olive Oil (extra light)   468°F   242°C
Peanut Oil                   450°F   232°C

We use the cheap OO (half-gallon bottles from Costco) to fry with all the time.

[MK]

Damn!  We have cooks on TRW too! 

[Chris333]

Anything new?  Better, worse, or don't know yet.

Honestly the parts look the same. I guess it will be a few months before I see or don't see crystals.

[nickelplate759]

Extra Virgin Olive Oil (aka 1st press), the yummy version, has a very low smoke point indeed BUT regular olive oil (aka Light or Extra light) has a very high smoke point. Higher than peanut oil.

Olive Oil (virgin)   391°F   199°C
Olive Oil (extra light)   468°F   242°C
Peanut Oil                   450°F   232°C

We use the cheap OO (half-gallon bottles from Costco) to fry with all the time.

Also, the yummy kind is far to expensive to fry in - or clean FUD with.  Put it on your salad!   Also, don't put it in the refrigerator, it will congeal.

The "like you cook meat in" is in fact a good description, but assumes that you know what that means.  It's the cheap stuff.

[chicken45]

Don't forget that hydrogen cyanide has an almond-y aroma.

Funny thing is sweet almonds have trace amounts of HCN which I guess imparts some of the distinctive taste and smell. Bitter almonds have much more than trace amounts and are obviously poisonous. Jake lost me on the chemical relationships of FXD several pages ago, but is there a cyanoacrylate or other CN compound somewhere in the mix? Could it explain the odor?

Those bitter almonds are banned here in the states.  That’s why marzipan is better in Europe.

[muktown128]

Darn, what's with all this food talk?  I was enjoying the urethane acrylate oligomer with proprietary photoinitiator discussion. 
Reminds me of when I was formulating UV curable coatings early in my career (>25 years ago).

Scott

[peteski]

Darn, what's with all this food talk?  I was enjoying the urethane acrylate oligomer with proprietary photoinitiator discussion. 
Reminds me of when I was formulating UV curable coatings early in my career (>25 years ago).

Scott

Well then, maybe you can chime in and provide some additional opinions about that is going on? 

[narrowminded]

Honestly the parts look the same. I guess it will be a few months before I see or don't see crystals.

Thanks.  That's helpful this far.  The proof will be in the crystals!   

That makes me wonder if maybe an Ouija Board, a seance, or maybe joining hands and lighting candles might help?